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Boyscouts Of America, change or bowing to pressure?
ZRX1200 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,630
By Pete Williams, Justice Correspondent, NBC News The Boy Scouts of America, one of the nation’s largest private youth organizations, is actively considering an end to its decades-long policy of banning gay scouts or scout leaders, according to scouting officials and outsiders familiar with internal discussions.

If adopted by the organization’s board of directors, it would represent a profound change on an issue that has been highly controversial -- one that even went to the US Supreme Court. The new policy, now under discussion, would eliminate the ban from the national organization’s rules, leaving local sponsoring organizations free to decide for themselves whether to admit gay scouts.

“The chartered organizations that oversee and deliver scouting would accept membership and select leaders consistent with their organization’s mission, principles or religious beliefs,” according to Deron Smith, a spokesman for the Boy Scouts’ national organization.

Individual sponsors and parents “would be able to choose a local unit which best meets the needs of their families,” Smith said.

The discussion of a potential change in policy is nearing its final stages, according to outside scouting supporters. If approved, the change could be announced as early as next week, after the BSA's national board holds a regularly scheduled meeting.

Only seven months ago, the Boy Scouts affirmed a policy of banning gay members, after a nearly two-year examination of the issue by a committee of volunteers convened by national leaders of the Boy Scouts of America, known as the BSA.

In a statement last July affirming the ban, its national executive board called it “the best policy for the organization.”

But since then, a scouting official said, local chapters have been urging a reconsideration. "We're a grassroots organization. This is a response to what's happening at the local level," the official said.

Two corporate CEOs on BSA’s national board, Randall Stephenson of AT&T and James Turley of Ernst & Young, have also said they would work to end the ban. Stephenson is next in line to be the BSA’s national chairman. During the 2012 presidential campaign, both Barack Obama and Mitt Romney said the BSA should admit gay scouts and scout leaders.

Ousted lesbian Cub Scout mom fights back

Jennifer Tyrrell, who was ousted as a den mother for her son's Cub Scout troop because of her sexual orientation, is fighting back. Tyrrell talks to msnbc's Thomas Roberts about her petition to change the Boy Scouts of America's long-standing policy on banning gays and lesbians.

About 50 local United Way groups and several corporations and charities have concluded that the ban violates their non-discrimination requirements and have ceased providing financial aid to the Boy Scouts. An official of The Human Rights Campaign, an advocate for gay rights, said HRC planned to downgrade its non-discrimination ratings for corporations that continue to give the BSA financial support.

“It’s an extremely complex issue,” said one Boy Scouts of America official, who explained that other organizations have threatened to withdraw their financial support if the BSA drops the ban.

While the national scouting organization sets broad policies, more than 290 local councils nationwide govern the day-to-day conduct of the more than 116,000 local organizations. Individual scouting troops are sponsored by religious and civic organizations that represent a diversity of views on the issue of allowing gay scouts and leaders.

“The beliefs of the sponsoring organizations are highly diverse,” the official said.

The policy change now under discussion “would allow the religious, civic or educational organizations that oversee and deliver Scouting to determine how to address this issue,” said the BSA's Smith.

“The Boy Scouts would not, under any circumstances, dictate a position to units, members or parents. Under this proposed policy, the BSA would not require any chartered organization to act in ways inconsistent with that organization’s mission, principles or religious beliefs,” he said.

In 2000, the U.S. Supreme Court concluded that the Boy Scouts had a First Amendment right of free expression when it came to the organization’s belief that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with values stated in the scout oath, requiring scouts to be “morally straight.”

The Scouts have won similar legal battles, with courts finding that the BSA’s right of free association permits it, as a private organization, to reject those it believes do not conform to is values.















I detest Americans of any ilk who don't believe in free association.
MACS Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,840
The Girl Scouts don't want 'em and the Boy Scouts are afraid they'll take over!!

Compromise:

Girl Scouts
Boy Scouts
Boys who want to be Girls Scouts
bloody spaniard Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
ZRX1200 wrote:
By Pete Williams, Justice Correspondent, NBC News The Boy Scouts of America, one of the nation’s largest private youth organizations, is actively considering an end to its decades-long policy of banning gay scouts or scout leaders, according to scouting officials and outsiders familiar with internal discussions.


I detest Americans of any ilk who don't believe in free association.


Think
Why do I get the feeling that Pete Williams is jumping up and down like a ruptured kangaroo, clapping both hands in glee as he reports this story? Aooooooooooooogah!

Think
"Free association" wasn't that Robin Williams's method?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,516
Gheys gonna earn THAT rubby badge!Frying pan
daveincincy Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2006
Posts: 20,033
Scout Master: All right guys! Lay off Canteen Boy, You can hike on back to your tents and hit the hay! Come on! Let’s go! Let’s go! [ Boy scouts are leaving, disappointed, Scout Master holds Canteen Boy’s leg ] Not you Canteen Boy! I wanted to talk to you about something. I see you take a lot of ribbing from the other scouters.

Canteen Boy: Goes with the territory mister Armstrong – it’s sticks and stones!

Scout Master: [ Putting his arm around Canteen Boy’s shoulder ] Attaboy!.. [ Looking at Canteen Boy with lust in his eye ] You know, it seems like the moment you get out of the city, all the problems sort of, fade away… [ Scout Master feels Canteen Boy’s cheek with his nose ] I’m sorry Canteen Boy my - my beard is scratchy isn’t it?

Canteen Boy: [ Very uncomfortable with the situation ] No harm done!

Scout Master: [ Continues to feel Canteen Boy’s cheek ] My beard is scratchy Canteen Boy but it gives good back rubs…

Canteen Boy: Yeah um, yeah I’ll take a rain check on that mister Armstrong.

Scout Master: [ Tears his shirt apart ] Oops! My shirt fell off!

Canteen Boy: That’s a quick fix mister Armstrong just put it back on!

Scout Master: Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! That’s great Canteen Boy! Hey [Holds Canteen Boy back again, puts an hand on his leg and rubs it] Do you like wine?

Canteen Boy: Actually I prefer pure tap water um, right out of the ol' canteen right here!

Scout Master: I’m going to get us a little…. wine…. [ Scout Master leaves ]

Canteen Boy: All right a little drop will not kill me I guess…

[ Canteen Boy hears a howl in the forest ]

Canteen Boy: Ooo-Ooo to you! Hey owl! if you’re so wise why don’t you go to sleep it’s the middle of the night! [ Canteen Boy is amused and proud of his remark. ]

[ Scout Master comes back, wearing a bath robe and holding two glasses of wine. Sits besides Canteen Boy ]

Scout Master: Ahhh… Here’s to the Great Outdoors! [ Scout Master intentionally spills wine over Canteen Boy’s sleeping bag ] Oops! Was that your sleeping bag? [ Canteen Boy’s get out of his wet sleeping bag ] You’d better share mine.. It’s Extra Large!

Canteen Boy: [ Naive about the invitation ] Sure why not, until mine dries off, it won’t take long it’s made of Gore-Tex.

Scout Master: Canteen Boy, would you um.. rub some bug repellent on my chest?

Canteen Boy: It’s February mister Armstrong I think all the bugs went down south to hibernate, I’ll be honest with you!

Scout Master: Humor me Canteen Boy!

[ Canteen Boy nervously applies lotion on Scout Master’s chest for a few seconds ]

Canteen Boy: There you go! No more bugs!

Scout Master: I have to apologize for my hairy chest, it can be a little scratchy…

Canteen Boy: Yeah.. my mom might like it as she’s a big Tom Selleck fan!

Scout Master: Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! You’re very funny Canteen Boy! [ Reaches out and holds Canteen Boy in his arms ] Make me laugh some more!

Canteen Boy: Actually, I left my joke book over in the tent, how about I go get it?

Scout Master: That’s okay Canteen Boy let’s just, lie here and… look at the stars…. [ Scout Master puts his mouth on Canteen Boy’s cheek and neck ] Do you know um… [ Takes Canteen Boy’s finger and suck it ] do you know how.. how to play… "Truth or Dare"…Canteen Boy?

Canteen Boy: Um, refresh me!

Scout Master: You choose between telling a secret… or doing a Dare…

Canteen Boy: All right: "Dare."

[ Scout Master whispers something inaudible at Canteen Boy’s ear ]

Canteen Boy : [ Looking scared ] You know what mister Armstrong, let’s start off with the Truth!

Scout Master: I’ll tell you a Truth canteen Boy! You know what I hate? Underpants!

[ Scout Masters removes his underpants underneath his sleeping bag ]

Canteen Boy: Gee, I think if you worry about bugs, underpants would be your last line of defense!

Scout Master: [ Throwing his underpants away ] Problem solved!

Canteen Boy: Your problem’s solved but I think my problem’s just beginning! [ Scout Master forces Canteen Boy into spoon like position ] Aahhh What the hell is that?

Scout Master: I don’t know, it must have been a bed bug.

Canteen Boy: That was pretty big for a bed bug!

Scout Master: Okay it wasn’t a bed bug!

Canteen Boy: Let’s go back to saying it was a bed bug! Hey you know what, the park ranger just called! He said: "one camper per sleeping bag!" Sorry! Adios Amigos! [ Canteen Boy tries to leave sleeping bag, Scout Master holds him back ]

Scout Master: Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! God you make me laugh Canteen Boy!

[ Scout Masters holds Canteen Boy and falls asleep – the morning after…]

Scout Master: [ Wakes up ] I’m sorry Canteen Boy, I fell asleep before anything happened.

Canteen Boy: No harm done!

Scout Master: Well who’s hungry? I’m gonna go make us a power breakfast! [ Scout Master leaves ]

Canteen Boy: Okay…[ Canteen Boy gets up, whistles to summon snakes and runs away ]

Scout Master: [ Scout Master returns ] Canteen Boy have you ever had a Mimosa? Canteen Boy? [ Snakes "charge" at Scout Master from various location ] Ha! Ha! Ha!.. Canteen Boy you rascal!"
bloody spaniard Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
HAHAHAHA! You fonny (looking), Dave.
tegulator Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2013
Posts: 347
What is the issue here? It doesn't seem as if the Scouts are being legally forced to do anything and that this is an internal change, so I'm confused...
DrMaddVibe Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,516
tegulator wrote:
I'm confused...



So are the rubby players.

Especially in Georgetown!


EAT MOR CHIKIN'!!!
ZRX1200 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,630
Tegulator did you read my title?


I posed a question and made a statement at the end of the story. Either they've changed their convictions or they are bowing to pressure IMO.
victor809 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tegulator wrote:
What is the issue here? It doesn't seem as if the Scouts are being legally forced to do anything and that this is an internal change, so I'm confused...


Oh, some of the shorter bus brethren here will whine about liberals ruining the world and having indoctrinated so many people that the scouts are now forced to only hire child molester scout leaders...

I mean, keeping gays out of the scouts for all these years has worked SO well... Sarcasm
ZRX1200 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,630
Victor so do you think they had a change in conviction or bowed to pressure?
tegulator Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2013
Posts: 347
ZRX1200 wrote:
Tegulator did you read my title?


I posed a question and made a statement at the end of the story. Either they've changed their convictions or they are bowing to pressure IMO.


Sure I read the title, but I also read the bit at the end where you said you detest anyone who doesn't like free association (or something to that effect). It seems to me what we have in this case (and in last year's Chick-fil-a protests) is the reverse of when conservatives protested Disney because of the Gay Day that is annually held at Disneyworld.

There isn't any *legal* action being threatened in either of these cases, but the burden of proof is on supporters of the Scout's current policy on gay members to show how alternative lifestyles *necessarily* prevent the person in question from living the "morally straight" life. If this cannot be shown, then it follows that overt homophobia is the prime motivating factor for keeping gays out of Scouts. Sure, private clubs have the right to decide their own qualifications for membership...even if it is for bigoted reasons.
victor809 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
ZRX1200 wrote:
Victor so do you think they had a change in conviction or bowed to pressure?


What is the difference?
They said what happened. Local leadership didn't want to be bigoted... they decided not to force their local troop leadership to be bigoted if they didn't want to. At most that implies they "bowed to pressure" from their own internal organization.

The real question though, is that if they allow gays to participate openly in the scouts, where will all the child molesters hide? I sense a jump in seminary attendance!
daveincincy Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2006
Posts: 20,033
They caved in to the pressure...just like Disney and any other company that decides the negative publicity is just not worth it.
victor809 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
daveincincy wrote:
They caved in to the pressure...just like Disney and any other company that decides the negative publicity is just not worth it.



....
Just out of curiosity... if the KKK started allowing jewish members, would you say they "Caved to pressure"?
Brick wall
ZRX1200 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,630
You're gonna stick with that^? ?


Chic Fil A is a business that was pressured by politicians who threatened to close local restaurants. Apples and burritos hommie.

Now, do you support a private organizations right to free associate?

This has NOTHING TO DO with the benefits or lack thereof with Scouts allowing homosexuals. Free association is vital to our freedoms.
dstieger Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
What's next? Heathen Scouts? Where will it end?
TMCTLT Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
daveincincy wrote:
They caved in to the pressure...just like Disney and any other company that decides the negative publicity is just not worth it.



Couldn't have said it better....+1

That's what organizations do now, it costs less to knuckle under (what with legal fees being what they are)
ZRX1200 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,630
16 for 12.

Victor I support the KKKs right to allow whoever they want.
TMCTLT Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
....
Just out of curiosity... if the KKK started allowing jewish members, would you say they "Caved to pressure"?
Brick wall



Come on you can do better than that....those **** hate everyone......
victor809 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
ZRX1200 wrote:
16 for 12.

Victor I support the KKKs right to allow whoever they want.


As do I, but would you be screaming "caved to pressure!!" if they suddenly changed their mind?

You're trying to use inflammatory words for a very simple change.

This doesn't have to be "political" pressure. The boy scouts are a business, if enough parents don't want their children involved in a bigoted organization, then the organization either has to change or die. they chose to change their policy to better meet the client's views they want.

Are you just upset that there are more people who aren't bigoted against homosexuals than are?
bloody spaniard Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Jaime, I was in the Scouts but they lost their relevancy to me long ago. Unlike my father & his father before him, I will not encourage my son to join.
They can turn it into a prancing, camping caberet for Scoutmasters to enjoy for all I care.
daveincincy Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2006
Posts: 20,033
victor809 wrote:
As do I, but would you be screaming "caved to pressure!!" if they suddenly changed their mind?

You're trying to use inflammatory words for a very simple change.

This doesn't have to be "political" pressure. The boy scouts are a business, if enough parents don't want their children involved in a bigoted organization, then the organization either has to change or die. they chose to change their policy to better meet the client's views they want.

Are you just upset that there are more people who aren't bigoted against homosexuals than are?


You think the BSA changed to accomodate the parents (i.e. the minority i.e. gay/lesbian) who don't want their children involved in a "bigoted" organization? I'm sure the BSA would do just fine if, all of a sudden, every gay/lesbian leader quit the BSA. And if it didn't survive, well, so be it. It's probably better off that way IMO.
tegulator Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2013
Posts: 347
ZRX1200 wrote:

Now, do you support a private organizations right to free associate?

This has NOTHING TO DO with the benefits or lack thereof with Scouts allowing homosexuals. Free association is vital to our freedoms.


Yes, it does in fact have something to do with the Scouts policies on homosexual members because that is what is causing people to petition the Scouts to change the policy in the first place.

ZRX, you seem to be missing the point regarding your insistence that this is somehow going against free association. No government entity is forcing or pressuring the Scouts to allow gay people as members; if they *were* you would have a very legitimate point. However, freedom of association is precisely what *is* going on here.

Let's say we were going to form a club with one of the core beliefs that people who smoke Gurkhas wouldn't be allowed in because people who smoke Gurkhas are somehow morally deficient. This is fine, and we're certainly within our rights to do so. But...let's say that some of our members were secretly fans of Hansotia and, through fear of being kicked out of the group, couldn't tell the other members which caused them a lot of personal heartache. Let's also say that our club's growing visibility--due in part to our prohibition against Gurkha-smokers--was attracting external, but private, critics who are calling for us to allow Gurkha-smokers into the club.

Is there pressure coming at our group? Yes. Is it because one of our policies is thought by a significant amount of the population to be insensitive (at the least)? Yes. Is our freedom to associate with one another being threatened? No more than any other club that has a visible public face. This is part of the natural process of groups interacting and making demands with one another. So if a lot of people, among whom are some of our members, are urging us to reconsider our no Gurkha-smokers policy, then we should reexamine the policy. We have the "freedom" to keep the policy or to change it
bloody spaniard Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
check please Gonz
victor809 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
daveincincy wrote:
You think the BSA changed to accomodate the parents (i.e. the minority i.e. gay/lesbian) who don't want their children involved in a "bigoted" organization? I'm sure the BSA would do just fine if, all of a sudden, every gay/lesbian leader quit the BSA. And if it didn't survive, well, so be it. It's probably better off that way IMO.


Do you REALLY think that it's just gay/lesbian parents who would not want their children involved in an anti-gay organization?

non-denominational-god forbid I end up with a nasty little drooling sack of blood, but I sure as hell wouldn't involve it in an organization that discriminated against people's sexuality. For two very specific reasons: 1 - that's not something I would want any kid of mine to learn; 2 - what if he/she were gay and hadn't figured it out/told me yet? What would that do to the kid's ability to deal with who they are and their place in the world?

You're deluding yourself if you think only gays/lesbians care what the bsa stance is on gays.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,516
victor809 wrote:
Do you REALLY think that it's just gay/lesbian parents who would not want their children involved in an anti-gay organization?

non-denominational-god forbid I end up with a nasty little drooling sack of blood, but I sure as hell wouldn't involve it in an organization that discriminated against people's sexuality. For two very specific reasons: 1 - that's not something I would want any kid of mine to learn; 2 - what if he/she were gay and hadn't figured it out/told me yet? What would that do to the kid's ability to deal with who they are and their place in the world?

You're deluding yourself if you think only gays/lesbians care what the bsa stance is on gays.










BOO





FRICKETY





HOO!!!












Watching this cryfest is better than tv!
ZRX1200 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,630
"As do I" well thanks for that anyways.

At least we got a couple posts outta you before the name calling.
daveincincy Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2006
Posts: 20,033
If I'm not comfortable with a particular group, I don't join it, and I don't need to go out of my way to change them. People need to stop making their problem everyone else's problem...including whether or not Subway is actually selling a 12" sub.
tegulator Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2013
Posts: 347
Nice to know that society's views on homosexuality is being held to the same standard as sandwiches.
bloody spaniard Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Holy shiite- anybody else want to pour battery acid into their ears & poke out their eyes with sharp nipples after listening to this debate again?
tegulator Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2013
Posts: 347
^ I thought you wanted your check?
dstieger Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
My irritations with BSA largely evaporated when they started to surrender (and to lose) their 'special standing' with government 'agencies'. When they had preferenial use of public schools; camped on military installations that couldn't be accessed by other 'private groups'....I took great exception to their 'free association' 'rights'. Don't feel you can have it both ways. Seems in recent years, they've given up and/or lost much of that 'special' access, so I tend to feel they can allow in (or keep out) whomever they want. Doesn't mean I have to respect them, support them, or give them the time of day...I'm sure they'd miss me. Quit them nearly 20 years ago when my oldest son was a new member - they wouldn't allow me to assist the den/pack whatever it was because I refused to take a written oath swearing my 'allegiance' (or something) to their god. Sorta pissed me off at the time...mostly just humorous now.
ZRX1200 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,630
Meat in da buns....or vagitarian.......


At least Dave gets it.


victor809 Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
daveincincy wrote:
If I'm not comfortable with a particular group, I don't join it, and I don't need to go out of my way to change them. People need to stop making their problem everyone else's problem...including whether or not Subway is actually selling a 12" sub.


.... So were you saying the same thing when different christian groups called for boycotts on whatever store was using Ellen as a spokesman?

Be consistent.
bloody spaniard Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
tegulator wrote:
^ I thought you wanted your check?



Shaddup- alright, I'm bored.Blushing
daveincincy Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2006
Posts: 20,033
victor809 wrote:
Do you REALLY think that it's just gay/lesbian parents who would not want their children involved in an anti-gay organization?


I'd be curious to know how many people actually interested/involved in the BSA, who are not gay/lesbian, are concerning themselves with this battle. Actually I'm not really that curious to know...I imagine the percentage would be rather small.

Quote:
non-denominational-god forbid I end up with a nasty little drooling sack of blood, but I sure as hell wouldn't involve it in an organization that discriminated against people's sexuality. For two very specific reasons: 1 - that's not something I would want any kid of mine to learn; 2 - what if he/she were gay and hadn't figured it out/told me yet? What would that do to the kid's ability to deal with who they are and their place in the world?


1. Do they teach anti-gay? I've been in scouts, as a kid and a leader, and I've never heard any such teachings. I don't believe the kids are taught the policies of the organization...I'm not sure they would care to know.

2. Is the BSA the place to figure out if one is gay? Interesting. I never looked at that angle before. If one gets their worth from their sexuality, well, they probably have a lot of other issues going on.

Quote:
You're deluding yourself if you think only gays/lesbians care what the bsa stance is on gays.


See my reply above...I wouldn't be surprised if it's a rather small fraction of a percent.
victor809 Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I support different christian group's rights to be bigoted and boycott stores.
I support different LGBT group's rights to publicize the bsa being bigoted.

I even (shocking) support people's right to not join an organization because they think it's full of bigots.

And guess what, when your organization gets a bad reputation for having views which are considered unacceptable by a large enough percentage of the population you're trying to get money from... I support that organization's right to change their views...

If you want the BSA to go back to being bigoted, the key will be to convince enough parents to become bigots again. Don't blame the bsa for adopting to their clientele.
daveincincy Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2006
Posts: 20,033
victor809 wrote:
.... So were you saying the same thing when different christian groups called for boycotts on whatever store was using Ellen as a spokesman?

Be consistent.



Think I don't know what you're talking about.

Ellen can be a spokesperson for whoever she wants. If I like the product, I buy it. If I don't like it, I don't buy it. Wasn't there some controversy with Levi's and gay/lesbians...honestly, I don't recall the issues. Anyway, I will wear Levi's.

I am consistent. I try to consistently stay out of people's business and let them run things the way they see fit.

edit: IIR, Levi's does support gay/lesbians...it was probably the "christians" that tried to give negative rep to Levi's....but..again, I really don't recall...and don't really care.
victor809 Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
daveincincy wrote:
I'd be curious to know how many people actually interested/involved in the BSA, who are not gay/lesbian, are concerning themselves with this battle. Actually I'm not really that curious to know...I imagine the percentage would be rather small.


so... you're not curious because you're convinced that it's a small percentage?
That's a pretty strange position to take. I would expect it to be a huge number... I mean, if you have a friend who is gay, then you're concerned with the welfare of your friend. This means you're concerned with an organization's stance on your friend. to take it to an extreme, how comfortable would you be telling a jewish friend you signed your kid up for hitler's youth program?
I have trouble believing you live in a deep enough cave that you don't have a gay friend.

Quote:

1. Do they teach anti-gay? I've been in scouts, as a kid and a leader, and I've never heard any such teachings. I don't believe the kids are taught the policies of the organization...I'm not sure they would care to know.

2. Is the BSA the place to figure out if one is gay? Interesting. I never looked at that angle before. If one gets their worth from their sexuality, well, they probably have a lot of other issues going on.


I don't know what they teach in the scouts. I was fortunately spared any of that, I suspect when my father found out they had a big jesus element.
As for #2, that's not what I said and you know it.
tailgater Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Could someone tell me on what friggin day the boyscouts of America became an organization where sexual orientation is a topic of discussion?

Do they ask the old lady if she's a lesbian before they help her cross the street?

Do they whittle sticks into mini phali?

Does the troop leader discuss sexual positions?


This all started because of an agenda.
I don't care if someone is gay or not. But too many people care if I care (if that makes sense).

Sexual preference doesn't need to be listed as a qualification unless it's relevant.
victor809 Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
daveincincy wrote:
Think I don't know what you're talking about.

Ellen can be a spokesperson for whoever she wants. If I like the product, I buy it. If I don't like it, I don't buy it. Wasn't there some controversy with Levi's and gay/lesbians...honestly, I don't recall the issues. Anyway, I will wear Levi's.

I am consistent. I try to consistently stay out of people's business and let them run things the way they see fit.

edit: IIR, Levi's does support gay/lesbians...it was probably the "christians" that tried to give negative rep to Levi's....but..again, I really don't recall...and don't really care.


My point is, this group starts yelling and screaming about "bowing to peer pressure!" and "can't they just mind their own business and let us be good christians!!" whenever an anti-gay group switches teams (see what I did there!).

But I never hear anyone make the same complaints when it's public boycotts and public complaining by christian organizations trying to get companies to support their anti-gay view.

Since you're here saying people should "mind their own business"... then if I did a search through the threads, I'm sure I'd see you stating the same thing about the christian groups and any of their boycotts... right? consistent and all....
tailgater Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
My point is, this group starts yelling and screaming about "bowing to peer pressure!" and "can't they just mind their own business and let us be good christians!!" whenever an anti-gay group switches teams (see what I did there!).

But I never hear anyone make the same complaints when it's public boycotts and public complaining by christian organizations trying to get companies to support their anti-gay view.

Since you're here saying people should "mind their own business"... then if I did a search through the threads, I'm sure I'd see you stating the same thing about the christian groups and any of their boycotts... right? consistent and all....



I'd like to hear about "public boycotts trying to get companies to support anit-gay views"
tailgater Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I wonder if they'll be a sodomy badge?
BuckyB93 Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,231
tailgater wrote:
Could someone tell me on what friggin day the boyscouts of America became an organization where sexual orientation is a topic of discussion?

Do they ask the old lady if she's a lesbian before they help her cross the street?

Do they whittle sticks into mini phali?

Does the troop leader discuss sexual positions?


This all started because of an agenda.
I don't care if someone is gay or not. But too many people care if I care (if that makes sense).

Sexual preference doesn't need to be listed as a qualification unless it's relevant.



What timing. My son recently joined the Cub Scouts and has almost completed his achievements for a Wolf badge. Achievement 10 is called "Family Fun" and builds on character and cooperation. One example is to build or create a homemade game and play it with your family.

I taught him how to play Smear the Q ueer in the backyard and then we went around the neighborhood and keyed any cars that had a rainbow bumper sticker.

It was a great family building exercise.
tailgater Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
BuckyB93 wrote:
What timing. My son recently joined the Cub Scouts and has almost completed his achievements for a Wolf badge. Achievement 10 is called "Family Fun" and builds on character and cooperation. One example is to build or create a homemade game and play it with your family.

I taught him how to play Smear the Q ueer in the backyard and then we went around the neighborhood and keyed any cars that had a rainbow bumper sticker.

It was a great family building exercise.


holy chit.
smear the q ueer.

made me laugh.
but I'll go to confession tomorrow.
at a non-bigotted church, of course.


tailgater Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
BuckyB93 wrote:
What timing. My son recently joined the Cub Scouts and has almost completed his achievements for a Wolf badge. Achievement 10 is called "Family Fun" and builds on character and cooperation. One example is to build or create a homemade game and play it with your family.

I taught him how to play Smear the Q ueer in the backyard and then we went around the neighborhood and keyed any cars that had a rainbow bumper sticker.

It was a great family building exercise.


In the future, you can continue to key the vehicles with the rainbow stickers. Just blame your angst on the accompanying Elizabeth Warren sticker.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,516
tailgater wrote:
I wonder if they'll be a sodomy badge?



Trading in the big Jesus element badge?

Oh well...maybe they can help rubby players cross the streets in Georgetown!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,516
victor809 wrote:
.... So were you saying the same thing when different christian groups called for boycotts on whatever store was using Ellen as a spokesman?



Portia de Rossi would be the spokeswoman or spokesperson so it would make sense that her husband would be the spokesman...you'd have to be a complete idiot to argue on that!
victor809 Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
I'd like to hear about "public boycotts trying to get companies to support anit-gay views"


Ummm.... Ellen?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/06/ellen-degeneres-ad-one-million-moms-jc-penney-christmas_n_2251014.html

That took 2 seconds. Don't pretend you didn't know anything about this.
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