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victor809 Offline
#201 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 10:40 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
opelmanta1900 wrote:
And Andy Ngo, the controversial Vietnamese journalist who was savagely beaten by the Antifa mob? Vietnamese Nazi?


Savagely beaten?
He took 2 punches. I've seen worse from friends just drinking together and playing "punch me in the face" (an admittedly stupid game that actually caused someone to lose a tooth... and literally has no "winning").

But, to your question... he seems to have a loose association with the proud boys? So yeah... nazi.
victor809 Offline
#202 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 10:41 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
opelmanta1900 wrote:
You have to stop linking to snopes... I've seen the video... The version of the story you linked to is a version no one is telling... Snopes mixes in what they know to be false narratives so they can classify a story as partly false... I'll literally never follow another snopes link again...

Fact: an Antifa mob tried forcing an elderly driver to drive in a certain direction... He didn't want to.... When he got out and confronted them, your Nazi fighting heroes savagely beat the old man...


Hang on.... just because "no one is telling" it doesn't mean it's false.
I grabbed that one because I was guessing that's the random story you were talking about. You really have to be more specific than "old man beaten by antifa".
victor809 Offline
#203 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 10:45 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
you're gonna have to be more specific on this elderly driver thing... too much trash news mucking up the search. post a link so I know what you're talking about.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#204 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 10:56 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
victor809 wrote:
Savagely beaten?
He took 2 punches. I've seen worse from friends just drinking together and playing "punch me in the face" (an admittedly stupid game that actually caused someone to lose a tooth... and literally has no "winning").

But, to your question... he seems to have a loose association with the proud boys? So yeah... nazi.

Incorrect... All of what you just said... All of it...

You need to get your news from places other than snopes and Jezebel...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#205 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 10:59 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
victor809 wrote:
Hang on.... just because "no one is telling" it doesn't mean it's false.
I grabbed that one because I was guessing that's the random story you were talking about. You really have to be more specific than "old man beaten by antifa".

Read what snopes says... They confirm all of what I stated was true about the attack, they omit many key facts, including the video of the incident, and then claim the story was partly false because they intentionally added a false part to the story - the part about him being beaten because he was defending someone...
victor809 Offline
#206 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 10:59 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
opelmanta1900 wrote:
Incorrect... All of what you just said... All of it...

You need to get your news from places other than snopes and Jezebel...



I watched the video of it. Guy sucker punched him, then got a second punch in. After that, the guy went elsewhere and the crowd threw milkshakes and silly string. 2 punches.... 1 was a good one, the other just a weak follow up.

I don't bother reading news reports of a video if I can actually watch the video. Did you watch it?
opelmanta1900 Offline
#207 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:03 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
I did... I was also smart enough to follow up... He was attacked savagely... 2 punches were captured on tape... He suffered multiple brain contusions and stayed overnight in the hospital...
victor809 Offline
#208 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:05 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
opelmanta1900 wrote:
Read what snopes says... They confirm all of what I stated was true about the attack, they omit many key facts, including the video of the incident, and then claim the story was partly false because they intentionally added a false part to the story - the part about him being beaten because he was defending someone...


Um... opel. You're gonna have to get your story straight (or be more specific).
The link I posted was an old dud who was theoretically "Defending someone in a sundress" with no mention of driving.
You're trying to talk about someone who was driving and got out of their car? That wouldn't be this instance?

Start with what specific instance of an old man being beaten you want to discuss. Then let's get into what did or did not happen. Because this is going to go down a dumb rabbit hole of us talking about two different instances real quick.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#209 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:06 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
victor809 wrote:
I watched the video of it. Guy sucker punched him, then got a second punch in. After that, the guy went elsewhere and the crowd threw milkshakes and silly string. 2 punches.... 1 was a good one, the other just a weak follow up.

I don't bother reading news reports of a video if I can actually watch the video. Did you watch it?

By the way, nice you're justifying this... A man is sucker punched, then punched again, and the Antifa response? Assault him with milkshakes - some of which were mixed with concrete...

But it's ok, because anyone standing in the vicinity of a - what'd you call them, proud boys? I thought that group was started as a joke - well if you're next to them you're a Nazi... Vietnamese Nazi in this case...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#210 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:10 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
victor809 wrote:
Um... opel. You're gonna have to get your story straight (or be more specific).
The link I posted was an old dud who was theoretically "Defending someone in a sundress" with no mention of driving.
You're trying to talk about someone who was driving and got out of their car? That wouldn't be this instance?

Start with what specific instance of an old man being beaten you want to discuss. Then let's get into what did or did not happen. Because this is going to go down a dumb rabbit hole of us talking about two different instances real quick.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/us/portland-antifa-protesters-caught-on-video-bullying-elderly-motorist-woman-in-wheelchair.amp

Very unproud to link to fox but as you said, so many of these stupid attacks its hard to sift through...

I think the snopes link was to a different story, I apologize... Not to you... To snopes... Still not following their links though...
victor809 Offline
#211 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:14 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
opelmanta1900 wrote:
I did... I was also smart enough to follow up... He was attacked savagely... 2 punches were captured on tape... He suffered multiple brain contusions and stayed overnight in the hospital...


There were only 2 punches... the dude was running into frame. The journalist didn't seem staggered until those punches. Sure, it's illegal and wrong to punch people. The dude who hit him should go to jail. But "savage attack" is a bit of an exaggeration.



First... a "brain contusion" is a bruise. This is not to be unexpected when hit in the head. Secondly, Dr's are very conservative with head injuries. I'm sure if he made a big enough deal they would say "if you want we can keep you here overnight for observation". I can guarantee you that I've had "brain contusions" and I can guarantee you that if I went to the hospital they would have given me the option of staying overnight. I can also guarantee you that I wouldn't go.

Just because it has a fancy name associated with it doesn't mean it was that bad an injury. I saw his pictures afterwards... not bad at all.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#212 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:16 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
I'm not giving you my opinion on what happened and I'm not interested in yours... Go look into it further... Even the prominent people on Twitter who initially laughed at the attack have apologized... Try to be as smart as those morons at least....
victor809 Offline
#213 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:17 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
opelmanta1900 wrote:
By the way, nice you're justifying this... A man is sucker punched, then punched again, and the Antifa response? Assault him with milkshakes - some of which were mixed with concrete...

But it's ok, because anyone standing in the vicinity of a - what'd you call them, proud boys? I thought that group was started as a joke - well if you're next to them you're a Nazi... Vietnamese Nazi in this case...


Where did I justify it?
I am saying the wording is unnecessarily dramatic. "savage"... my ass.

And your "concrete milkshake" is another false story passed through fox news. There is zero evidence of any milkshakes mixed with concrete (look at the video again. It bounces harmlessly off him)... this narrative has been pushed to try to create a "both sides are just as bad" narrative between white supremacists killing people and violent protesters.
victor809 Offline
#214 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:22 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
opelmanta1900 wrote:
I'm not giving you my opinion on what happened and I'm not interested in yours... Go look into it further... Even the prominent people on Twitter who initially laughed at the attack have apologized... Try to be as smart as those morons at least....


"prominent people on twitter apologized"!!! oh ... my ... god.... it must be serious. If "prominent people on twitter" (a very well known site of individuals with knowledge of medicine and trauma) apologized.

Dear lord... dude got hit. It's illegal and wrong... but it is not nearly as serious as you drama queens want to make it. He had zero fractures on his face or head. Sure, getting punched is disconcerting... it dazes you... I'm not going to pretend that it was a savage beating though.
victor809 Offline
#215 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:29 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
opelmanta1900 wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/us/portland-antifa-protesters-caught-on-video-bullying-elderly-motorist-woman-in-wheelchair.amp

Very unproud to link to fox but as you said, so many of these stupid attacks its hard to sift through...

I think the snopes link was to a different story, I apologize... Not to you... To snopes... Still not following their links though...


I knew you were a fox viewer deep down.

Yeah, we were looking at two different incidents. This guy didn't get attacked at all... I'm not sure what's going on, but it looked from the video that he was driving where a protest was going on? I don't think you're supposed to do that....?

In all seriousness.... if a group of people are marching in a street in front of me, I'm not going to move a motor vehicle into the midst of it. It's dangerous to the pedestrians and they have a right of way. I mean.... if you did this in a walmart parking lot your car would probably get kicked too.... I've heard of stuff like this happening with other protests, I wouldn't call this an "antifa" problem as much as a "don't be a d!ck and drive your car into the middle of marching people" problem?
opelmanta1900 Offline
#216 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:30 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Savage... Not talking


And by prominent people i meant the liberal journalists you worship... Snopes writers and Jezebel people and such...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#217 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:32 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
victor809 wrote:
I knew you were a fox viewer deep down.

Yeah, we were looking at two different incidents. This guy didn't get attacked at all... I'm not sure what's going on, but it looked from the video that he was driving where a protest was going on? I don't think you're supposed to do that....?

In all seriousness.... if a group of people are marching in a street in front of me, I'm not going to move a motor vehicle into the midst of it. It's dangerous to the pedestrians and they have a right of way. I mean.... if you did this in a walmart parking lot your car would probably get kicked too.... I've heard of stuff like this happening with other protests, I wouldn't call this an "antifa" problem as much as a "don't be a d!ck and drive your car into the middle of marching people" problem?

The guy (according to the article) was attacked... The March wasnt a March... It was an Antifa mob taking over a street and accusing random white people of being in the kkk... If you read about the whole incident, it's disturbing... Especially the police response...
victor809 Offline
#218 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:33 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
opelmanta1900 wrote:
I'm not giving you my opinion on what happened and I'm not interested in yours... Go look into it further... Even the prominent people on Twitter who initially laughed at the attack have apologized... Try to be as smart as those morons at least....


https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/454128-comedian-says-he-was-punched-in-face-by-audience-member-after

This comic should probably check in to a hospital overnight and then start tweeting about the savage beating....
opelmanta1900 Offline
#219 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:33 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Is Jezebel even around anymore? I need to update my slander...
victor809 Offline
#220 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:34 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
opelmanta1900 wrote:
Savage... Not talking


And by prominent people i meant the liberal journalists you worship... Snopes writers and Jezebel people and such...


Mhmm.... is "snopes writer" even a thing?
opelmanta1900 Offline
#221 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:36 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Doubtful... I don't even know if Twitter is real...
victor809 Offline
#222 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:37 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
opelmanta1900 wrote:
The guy (according to the article) was attacked... The March wasnt a March... It was an Antifa mob taking over a street and accusing random white people of being in the kkk... If you read about the whole incident, it's disturbing... Especially the police response...


"mob taking over a street" is a protest march. It may not have been licensed or whatever... but they're marching in the street. How would you differentiate a "protest march" from a "mob taking over the street"?

I read the fox take on the police response... that's the current right wing "and the police in portland aren't doing anything!!" talking point. I don't know what they should do... or what their efforts are best spent doing. I don't even know what the march was for or in response to.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#223 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:41 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
You should look at what the Portland police say and what the Portland mayor is saying...
victor809 Offline
#224 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:48 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
opelmanta1900 wrote:
You should look at what the Portland police say and what the Portland mayor is saying...


Statements I saw were "we are monitoring the situation to make sure it doens't get out of hand" or something to that effect.

Oregon is an... odd state. I visited portland a couple times a year growing up... and went back through my 20's maybe once a year. Given the state's very strange history, and the modern shift to goddamn hippies... I'm not surprised there are a lot of problems.
DrafterX Offline
#225 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:08 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
I was born there... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#226 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 1:16 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
tailgater wrote:
This is what's wrong with the topic of racism.
If I said it with no malice and without a hint of racism to begin with, then that's what it is: NOT racist.

I don't give two rats azzes how someone perceives it. It wasn't racist when I said it. It's not racist when a weak minded snowflake tries to redefine it.




It looks like you didn’t read what you quoted. When you originally said it with no ill intent you were good. Upon finding how it was taken by him you are still good. But if you then repeatedly do it again knowing how it’s taken your intent changed. And if you encourage others to do so, particularly if you know they mean it differently than you originally did and feed off it then you should take a look at yourself.

Cries of racism like cries of wolf dilute things. They can be over used. I’m not saying you have to walk on egg shells or even that people are not overly sensitive and it isn’t over used.

But in this example I’d say you were not acting in a racist way until you continued and encouraged once you found out he found it racist. Simple. Even though you may have just wanted to be a deek you used racism to do it.

Easy peasy. Just be decent. Make America Decent Again.
victor809 Offline
#227 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 1:19 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
teedubbya wrote:

Easy peasy. Just be decent. Make America Decent Again.


Communist
teedubbya Offline
#228 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 1:25 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I’m not trying to convince tail. It wouldn’t work if I wanted to. Just giving my opinion. He’s clear who he is and where he stands.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#229 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 1:44 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
#istandwithcinnamon
tailgater Offline
#230 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 1:47 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
teedubbya wrote:
It looks like you didn’t read what you quoted. When you originally said it with no ill intent you were good. Upon finding how it was taken by him you are still good. But if you then repeatedly do it again knowing how it’s taken your intent changed. And if you encourage others to do so, particularly if you know they mean it differently than you originally did and feed off it then you should take a look at yourself.

Cries of racism like cries of wolf dilute things. They can be over used. I’m not saying you have to walk on egg shells or even that people are not overly sensitive and it isn’t over used.

But in this example I’d say you were not acting in a racist way until you continued and encouraged once you found out he found it racist. Simple. Even though you may have just wanted to be a deek you used racism to do it.

Easy peasy. Just be decent. Make America Decent Again.



What the hell are you talking about?
I didn't "continue" to use or say anything.
I asked the question once: Do you understand English?

You really want this to be something it isn't. Don't you?
teedubbya Offline
#231 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 1:52 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Did you read the other posts? You obviously are not tracking but I’m confident others are.
teedubbya Offline
#232 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 1:55 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
We are talking about trump. You provided a personal example. I agree what you did was fine. Clumsy maybe but foot in mouth more than racist. But had you continued...... like trump....
teedubbya Offline
#233 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 1:55 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Hope that helps you.
tailgater Offline
#234 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:35 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
teedubbya wrote:
We are talking about trump. You provided a personal example. I agree what you did was fine. Clumsy maybe but foot in mouth more than racist. But had you continued...... like trump....


From your previous post:
"But in this example I’d say you were not acting in a racist way until you continued and encouraged once you found out he found it racist. Simple. Even though you may have just wanted to be a deek you used racism to do it. "

This reads awkwardly but I now understand how it's meant to read.

And yet I find it disheartening.
You are clearly saying that repeating a question that is NOT racist will result in it becoming racist simply based on the audience.
dstieger Offline
#235 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:43 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
tailgater wrote:

You are clearly saying that repeating a question that is NOT racist will result in it becoming racist simply based on the audience.



Which sort of speaks to the crux of the problem of so many of us talking past each other when it comes to racist stuff.

What is more important in the labeling of something or someone as racist? The way it is meant/intended? Or the way it is received/perceived?

Might require a Plato cave-level discussion to sort through it, but it is important, I think. If someone who has zero knowledge or context of the history of, say...the n word -- is it racist if he uses it? Is the word racist? Or the meaning and/or the user of the word?

Not entirely relevant, maybe, but I can't help but think about Randall in Clerks II when he wants to take back the words 'porch monkey'. Was a good dialog -- may not advance the discussion much, but it is sort of thoughtful
teedubbya Offline
#236 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:47 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Thanks dstieger. Once you realize someone finds something offensive and you continue anyway, especially if it is BECAUSE you know they find it offensive then you’ve crossed a threshold. Call it whatever you like but I’m glad I’m not the one trying to defend or normalize that.
DrafterX Offline
#237 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:50 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
I hate it when Victor calls me an idiot... Sad
teedubbya Offline
#238 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:51 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
He’s just repeating what he heard.
DrafterX Offline
#239 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:58 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
Ya.. prolly... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#240 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 3:02 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Not directed at tail

I told this story to someone earlier today. It’s absolutely true. Prior to this I’d not thought much about the go back home mantra. It does help me understand why my wife might see it differently than me.

Once I ran in to a Quick Trip and left her in the car with the two kids. They were around 6 and 8 years old. When I came out there was a nasty lougie on my passenger side windshield. Apparently someone screamed at her to go back home and spit at her.

This is common. The phrase means something to my wife that it may not to you. Maybe you are clueless about it. I don’t believe Trump is. And if he was he isn’t now. He is using it. Sorry. Threshold crossed.

Even if you think you should be able to tell everyone that, knowing what you know now maybe you should be more selective. Or maybe it’s more important to you to continue even knowing how it’s received. Your choice. You are what you are.

Trump knows exactly what he is doing and it’s a conscious tactical choice. I don’t know anyone pretends to defend it.
victor809 Offline
#241 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 3:04 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
I hate it when Victor calls me an idiot... Sad


To be fair, I think I usually call you a moron.
DrafterX Offline
#242 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 3:06 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
I didn't know he said it, or twerked it, more than once... Think
victor809 Offline
#243 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 3:19 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
I didn't know he said it, or twerked it, more than once... Think


You told me you couldn't translate twerk to english.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#244 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 3:21 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
You fell for the old "I can't explain it I'll just have to show it you" huh?
teedubbya Offline
#245 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 3:44 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I fell for that multiple times when drafter claimed to not understand the fireman spit thing.
DrafterX Offline
#246 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 4:24 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
That was you and Bloody.. Not talking
victor809 Offline
#247 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 4:28 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
That was you and Bloody.. Not talking


Wow... you had tw and bloody both making the fireman spit on you at the same time?

Never took you for a bukkake aficionado....
DrafterX Offline
#248 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 4:44 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
No way man... that would be gay.... Not talking
victor809 Offline
#249 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 4:45 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I dunno. I heard as long as tw and bloody don't look at each other they aren't gay.

.... you're kinda screwed either way tho
teedubbya Offline
#250 Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2019, 4:53 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Not if there is no penetration
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