Brewha
13 years ago

🐴 [frypan] 🤦 [gonzo]

DrMaddVibe wrote:


At last, you have become a man of few words . . . .
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tailgater
13 years ago



I gather that you think it is right and fair that a multimillionaire pays a lower percent of income tax because his money comes from dividends, and a working stiff pays a higher percentage because he actually "worked" for his money. Well, you are entitled to that opinion - which make it no less stupid.

Brewha wrote:



Who says what is "right and fair"?
Is it you?
Me?

Is it "fair" that Mitt Romney paid MILIONS of dollars in taxes last year?
Think about that before you spout off with percentages.

Then think about the fact that dividends are purchased with money gained AFTER taxes have ALREADY been levied.


I don't think that every person should pay the same dollar value.
But the false argument of percentages, tempered with the wishy washy terms "right" and "Fair" is no way to discuss a topic like this.
Using that logic, we could say that it isn't "right and fair" that Bll Gates drives a nicer car than I do. Or Trump lives in a bigger house.

I say let's go flat.
Let's do the math and figure out how to levy a flat tax on ALL INCOME. No loop holes.

But be forewarned: you won't like it come retirement age.
Or if you sell a home to downsize. And the list goes on.

Unless, of course, you only want those pesky "wealthy people" to pay more...


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ZRX1200
  • ZRX1200
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
13 years ago
Forcefully stealing wealth is immoral.
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DrafterX
13 years ago
People seem to forget about the taxes paid by the 'man's' employees also... 😟
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Brewha
13 years ago

Who says what is "right and fair"?
Is it you?
Me?

Is it "fair" that Mitt Romney paid MILIONS of dollars in taxes last year?
Think about that before you spout off with percentages.

Then think about the fact that dividends are purchased with money gained AFTER taxes have ALREADY been levied.


I don't think that every person should pay the same dollar value.
But the false argument of percentages, tempered with the wishy washy terms "right" and "Fair" is no way to discuss a topic like this.
Using that logic, we could say that it isn't "right and fair" that Bll Gates drives a nicer car than I do. Or Trump lives in a bigger house.

I say let's go flat.
Let's do the math and figure out how to levy a flat tax on ALL INCOME. No loop holes.

But be forewarned: you won't like it come retirement age.
Or if you sell a home to downsize. And the list goes on.

Unless, of course, you only want those pesky "wealthy people" to pay more...


tailgater wrote:


I wrote that I “gather” that he thought it was “right and fair”.
So – exactly, right – who did say it was right or fair? Good point – I think . . . .


And to continue my spouting off; I think those pesky “wealthy people” need to pay more. And stop living off of our backs.
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Brewha
13 years ago

Forcefully stealing wealth is immoral.

ZRX1200 wrote:


Care to contrast this with “passively exploiting the workers and garnishing their wages being okey-dokey”?
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DrafterX
13 years ago
Ram does the hokey-pokey when in doubt... 🖐
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DrMaddVibe
13 years ago

At last, you have become a man of few words . . . .

Brewha wrote:




When dealing with a guy that doesn't have a clue as to material wealth or wealth conservation a simple cave drawing was in order!/9
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stogiefan
13 years ago

I wrote that I “gather” that he thought it was “right and fair”.
So – exactly, right – who did say it was right or fair? Good point – I think . . . .


And to continue my spouting off; I think those pesky “wealthy people” need to pay more. And stop living off of our backs.

Brewha wrote:




How is the wealthy "living off our backs"? The fact of the matter is wealthy people pay a greater share of the tax burden under the Bush tax rates than they did under Clinton.
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DrafterX
13 years ago

How is the wealthy "living off our backs"? The fact of the matter is wealthy people pay a greater share of the tax burden under the Bush tax rates than they did under Clinton.

stogiefan wrote:





Someone said it once so everybody believes it.... 😟
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DrafterX
13 years ago
If I was contract labor my employer would pay a hell of alot more for my services... but they give me some pretty cool benifits and I made that choice..... Why should I bitch about how much money he's making? I have the option to go out on my own... hiring help is now a big problem tho... if my business grows I'm screwed... 😟
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tailgater
13 years ago

I wrote that I “gather” that he thought it was “right and fair”.
So – exactly, right – who did say it was right or fair? Good point – I think . . . .


And to continue my spouting off; I think those pesky “wealthy people” need to pay more. And stop living off of our backs.

Brewha wrote:



So what is "fair and right"?

=d>
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nicholasjames
13 years ago
a poor man never gave me a job.
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ZRX1200
  • ZRX1200
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
13 years ago
46. Author: Brewha Date: Tue, 12/18/2012, 6:36PM Reply

Care to contrast this with “passively exploiting the workers and garnishing their wages being okey-dokey”?


Exploiting workers how? We have workplace safety and minimum wage laws.....it's not forced labor.



Not arguing just asking. You and I usually are actually closer than it seems with some things. The never ending moving of the goal posts and a lack of declaring a stated end game bothers me. People can choose not to work for or support company X. Choosing to not participate as a citizen is more difficult. Sovereign citizens are great though.....

The forced taxation is necessary without a doubt, but the taxation and level of government are not. I am a man. I don't want a world full of fuggin bumpers to keep me safe. Freedom has a price and it's not just gaudy tee shirts from truck stops. "But what about ___________" tough sheet. If its not freely given by someone it ain't worth sheet to me. When the world is ran by force the HNIC can change and you might not like that.
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victor809
13 years ago



I say let's go flat.
Let's do the math and figure out how to levy a flat tax on ALL INCOME. No loop holes.

But be forewarned: you won't like it come retirement age.
Or if you sell a home to downsize. And the list goes on.

Unless, of course, you only want those pesky "wealthy people" to pay more...


tailgater wrote:



That would weight the system towards the very wealthy and the self employed.

The self employed (1099 etc) would find ways to hide income (creating business expenses, claiming the home vehicle as the work vehicle etc). This would reduce their effective tax rate.

The wealthy would do the same thing, but on a grander scale. Specifically buy investments to generate loss in certain years, that sort of thing.
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gringococolo
13 years ago

I think you are demonstrating that ignorance and rage of hand in hand. And that you are an expert in both.

I gather that you think it is right and fair that a multimillionaire pays a lower percent of income tax because his money comes from dividends, and a working stiff pays a higher percentage because he actually "worked" for his money. Well, you are entitled to that opinion - which make it no less stupid.

Brewha wrote:




I'll say it again. Educate yourself.

First of all those investments that are now paid via dividends were most likely bought with salary bonuses (taxed the exact same way yours were), or salary. They could have been bought by other complicated means, but no the less were already taxed once for sure. So they are normally taxed twice.

The "rich" marginal tax rates are way higher than what yours are. But I say again, forget about marginal tax rates. You clearly have little understanding of the tax code.


Please do the small amount of work I asked you to do, and figure out your EFFECTIVE TAX RATE. If yours is less than his AND you gave MORE than 20% of your income to charity, then you might have a reason to be frustrated with the current tax code.

I am an expert in disciplined rage. Ignorance.... not so much. I'm normally smart enough to not wast my time, but I guess I'll make an exception for you.

Funny thing is, I am actually trying to educate you, you just don't want to hear it.
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gringococolo
13 years ago
My wife and I do my BIL's taxes every year. He makes about 35k and supports a family of 7. He doesn't take food stamps out of pride, but he did get some Obama Phones (I'm not joking). Those phones now sit in a drawer, still being charged to the government. His oldest daughter goes to community college for free, and gets a small stipend.

He paid -$1000 in federal taxes... Thats right, he paid zero and got a $1000 extra back. His actual return was like $5500 back to him for all the taxes he "paid" READ WAS "WITHELD" FOR BREWHA, and his child tax credits.

His heart is in the right place. Three of the kids are his, two are "permanant foster", and are actually relatives from a crazy crackhead 2nd cousin of my BIL's.


This isn't some anecdotal story I am making up, it's the way things are. I think the tax system is about as fair as it's going to get. We can tax the rich ten times higher and it's not going to make a single bit of difference to my BIL. He already pays nothing, and actually gets money from the govt every year on top of all his withheld taxes returned. He, like the rest of the "poor", will not benefit in the least. His "rich" employers certainly will not increase his salary.



Flat tax is not good. Sounds good, but look at other socialist countries (just look at Germany tax system).
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tailgater
13 years ago

That would weight the system towards the very wealthy and the self employed.

The self employed (1099 etc) would find ways to hide income (creating business expenses, claiming the home vehicle as the work vehicle etc). This would reduce their effective tax rate.

The wealthy would do the same thing, but on a grander scale. Specifically buy investments to generate loss in certain years, that sort of thing.

victor809 wrote:



Included in the "no loop holes" comment.
:-({|=
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tailgater
13 years ago

a poor man never gave me a job.

nicholasjames wrote:



maybe you never asked...


😎
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bloody spaniard
13 years ago
The Chinese are busy buying gold & will be introducing a gold backed currency (Renminbi) in a few years displacing the dollar & this is the garbage minutiae we wallow in? 😣
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