frankj1
11 years ago

wrong agai

Jan 2001


That thread is certainly not unique, and similar claims are made by just about every prominent atheist. Carl Sagan included this fable in The Demon-Haunted World, for instance. And a fable is what it is. No such event ever took place. Moreover the reality is pretty much the opposite of the fable. Let’s move carefully through a list of actual facts that atheists tend to omit.

1. Galileo himself was a Catholic for his entire life, from childhood to death. He was a member of the church, a regular attendee, and there’s no evidence of his having any doubt of the basic soundness of Church authority.

2. The Catholic Church was a supporter of Galileo throughout his career. They not only provided moral support and encouragement, but also funding and other institutional support. Another fact that atheists often fail to mention is that Pope Urban VIII (the supposed villain of the tale) wrote a poem praising Galileo.

3. The claim is often made that the Church was afraid of Galileo’s heliocentric theory because they were a threat to Church Doctrine. This is completely false statement. The Church had no position on the issue of geocentric vs. heliocentric universe. They did not have any reason to care particularly about the issue. Two clergymen, Fr Clavius and Fr Grienberger, looked through his telescope and may have helped him take data.

4. Now one aspect of the Galileo is a half-truth: there was a sizable force in the scholarly world that was viciously opposed to the heliocentric theory. Aristotelean naturalists, who basically believed that Aristotle was prefect, held considerable sway in the 16th century. For instance, Professors at Oxford could be fined serious money if they contradicted Aristotle. Of course, these folks were often the intellectual opponents of Orthodox Catholics, since Aristotle was an atheist (or agnostic or deist, depending on how you look at it).

5. Now it was these academics who probably started Galileo’s troubles by reporting him to Church authorities as a heretic. (We don’t know exactly what they said, but we can make an educated guess.) Cardinal Robert Bellarmine investigated in 1616. He spoke with Galileo, and Galileo admitted there was no conclusive evidence for the heliocentric theory. In order to give the controversy time to calm down, Bellarmine asked Galileo to temporarily refrain from speaking out on the issue. Galileo promised to so in writing, and spent the next years on other scientific research.

6. In 1632 Galileo jumped back into the heliocentric vs. geocentric debate, breaking his promise. Moreover, he did it in a particularly aggressive work that openly mocked the Pope (for no apparent reason) and also treaded on other, purely theological and philosophical issues that were controversial because they related to the conflict of the Reformation. Galileo’s academic enemies came back and accused him of heresy again. His supporters (who included the Pope) wanted to basically give him a slap on the wrist, but the trial spiraled out of control. At this point we encounter several sub-myths:

6. A. Galileo was never imprisoned. He was placed under house arrest at a luxurious villa, and allowed to travel several times. (Kind of live being jailed at a beachfront condo or a luxury ski chalet. He probably had the time of his life.)

6. B. Some atheists will claim that Galileo was threatened with torture, tortured, or threatened with death. All of this if is flatly false.

6. C. Some will say that Galileo was prosecuted by the “Inquisition”, leaving readers to assume the Spanish Inquisition. Actually it was the final Inquisition located in Italy, the one that ordered six executions during its entire existence.

6. D. And lastly, that bit about Galileo staying true to his scientific findings under his breath, while pretending to admit to being wrong? Never happened.

So, to summarize: the Galileo myth is a myth plain and simple. The Catholic Church never attempted to eliminate the heliocentric theory for any reason. So with that said, shouldn’t atheists stop telling the Galileo myth

wheelrite wrote:



I have no dog in this fight, but I am curious as to how the above is considered some kind of proof of anything other than some random writing in 2001.

I'm entertained by this argument, just not sure why you submit this as some kind of authoritatative tie-breking statement of fact.
that, and I want this unendable (made that word up) discourse to continue cuz I like to see a couple of people fight without anything backing either of them.
teedubbya
11 years ago
(Galileo) Galileo (Galileo) Galileo, Galileo figaro
DrafterX
11 years ago
Poor CROS..... 😞
MACS
11 years ago

It's refreshing to see a believer that that keeps up with History and sees the world around us.

The point is that, unfortunately, religion has made, and continues to make, so many horrendous acts against humanity. No matter how 'good' it makes the people feel, when it discriminates and/or hurts a fellow human being, that's where the danger exists. Keep in mind that 'extremists' don't know they're 'extremists'.

Mr Roso wrote:



Lets not get twisted, home skillet... If you don't believe, that's your prerogative and I ain't going to try to convince you.

HOWEVER, God made man... man made organized religion as a means to control other men (and women), I imagine with good intentions at first. What men do in the name of organized religion is not what most religions preach.

I am a Christian. I struggle with my faith, as all men do, but I believe Jesus made the church obsolete. God, by sending Jesus here to be crucified, took away the need for a 'church' and put that church in our hearts. I believe this because it is what I was taught growing up, and because I believe something as intricate as life here on Earth could not just have happened spontaneously. The trees using sun and carbon dioxide (which we expel) to create oxygen (which we breathe) only for us to expel it so the trees can use it to create more oxygen? The cycle of water from vapor to rain to ocean to vapor to rain... to nourish said plants and animals? The Earth... and the moon... in perfect concert around the sun? With all the stars and all the planets in our galaxy... this is the only one with life.

Sorry. I don't believe it's all a coincidence.
DrafterX
11 years ago
And he created Adam and Eve.. not Adam and Pedro... 😟
Mr Roso
11 years ago


HOWEVER, God made man... man made organized religion as a means to control other men (and women), I imagine with good intentions at first. What men do in the name of organized religion is not what most religions preach.

I am a Christian. I struggle with my faith, as all men do, but I believe Jesus made the church obsolete. God, by sending Jesus here to be crucified, took away the need for a 'church' and put that church in our hearts.

MACS wrote:



And yet you believe in a jesus whose story comes from an organized religion.


.. this is the only one with life.

MACS wrote:



Are you sure? Just because we need certain ingredients to live, doesn't mean that all living creatures do. Check your Science books.
MACS
11 years ago

And he created Adam and Eve.. not Adam and Pedro... 😟

DrafterX wrote:



I'm not a gay right's advocate, by any means. I just don't see why people have to treat them like lepers. It's not contagious. You ain't gonna "catch the gay".

I agree with teedub... the way a lot of people treat gays is similar to how blacks were treated just 50 years ago. They're not sub-human, they're people just like we are. Thing is... I'd bet if people would stop turning them away and treating them with contempt, they might stop marching and STFU.
MACS
11 years ago

And yet you believe in a jesus whose story comes from an organized religion.



Are you sure? Just because we need certain ingredients to live, doesn't mean that all living creatures do. Check your Science books.

Mr Roso wrote:



#1 - doesn't mean I'm right... I just believe I am.

#2 - there may well be life on other planets, but I meant humanoid life, as I'm certain you knew.

As wheel said, there is no need to denigrate folks who believe in a deity. You choose not to believe and I never called you a blasphemous heathen ass hole? 😇
DrafterX
11 years ago

I'm not a gay right's advocate, by any means. I just don't see why people have to treat them like lepers. It's not contagious. You ain't gonna "catch the gay".

I agree with teedub... the way a lot of people treat gays is similar to how blacks were treated just 50 years ago. They're not sub-human, they're people just like we are. Thing is... I'd bet if people would stop turning them away and treating them with contempt, they might stop marching and STFU.

MACS wrote:




No they won't .... they want our children to believe tnis is normal and aceptible behavior... i personally don't give a damn... i just hate that it it has almost become cool to be gay in the eyes of teenagers... ignoring it and blaming so called haters doesn't make it ok... keep it a personal lifestyle.. I don't need to see it everytime i turn on the tv...
teedubbya
11 years ago
Yea. Congress should pass a law allowing the FTC to ban gay stuff on TV in th name of protecting religion. It could even be printed on red white and blue paper.

There will always be a group that will make a cottage industry out of this and will never be happy. And to the yin there is the yang. There will always be a group that hide their ignorance, fear and bigotry behind that groups existence. This certainly parallels what is going on in the racial discrimination world. History will judge both groups harshly and many words and actions happening now will be looked back on with shame.

But luckily most folks fall in to neither of those buckets and will move on without the ignorance, fear and hate that make those smaller groups more alike than different.
teedubbya
11 years ago
But none of that changes the fact you all are a bunch of f@gs.
HockeyDad
11 years ago
147 Christians got executed in Kenya by Islamic extremists. If there were any gays there they would have been executed as well......meanwhile gay-homo militant extremists are upset about ordering a pizza and Evangelical Christian militant extremists are worried about having to sell a gay person a pizza.

First world problems.
Speyside
11 years ago
So your moving to Kenya to help out?
teedubbya
11 years ago
We should stop worrying about the issues in this county until the issues of all the other countries are resolved since the are much more intense.

By the way wtf is up with dudes dressed like chicks crashing th e gates at NSA? We're they trying to get pizza?
Gene363
11 years ago

Gee, what would happen if you asked a muslim bakery to do a gay cake?

Or how about a cake with an image of mohammd?

teedubbya
11 years ago
I'd guess in Indiana they wouldn't have to?
teedubbya
11 years ago
I for one applaud Indiana's attempt to protect Islam.
HockeyDad
11 years ago

So your moving to Kenya to help out?

Speyside wrote:




No. I agree with TeeDubya. We need to focus on pressing issues of the day like gay cakes and pizzas. The world can take care of itself.

Besides, even our President moved here from Kenya.
HockeyDad
11 years ago


Gee, what would happen if you asked a muslim bakery to do a gay cake?

Or how about a cake with an image of mohammd?

Gene363 wrote:




Under the newly revised law they would have to now bake the cake. I'm not sure anybody is going to test it but it could be pretty funny if some Hasidic Jews tried to order a Mohammed cake.
cacman
11 years ago
Nick reserves the right!
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