DrMaddVibe
2 years ago

OMG - was that car in Christine and EV???

Brewha wrote:




Fartcar says what???
Brewha
2 years ago

Regurgitating a lie is not sarcasm. So how many trillions?

HockeyDad wrote:




https://www.budget.senate.gov/chairman/newsroom/press/sen-whitehouse-on-fossil-fuel-subsidies-we-are-subsidizing-the-danger-#:~:text=It 's%20not%20just%20the%20US,to%20the%20fossil%20fuel%20industry.


SEN. WHITEHOUSE ON FOSSIL FUEL SUBSIDIES: “WE ARE SUBSIDIZING THE DANGER”
Washington, D.C.—U.S. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), Chairman of the U.S. Senate Budget Committee, delivered the following opening statement at today’s hearing entitled, “Who Pays the Price: The Real Cost of Fossil Fuels.”

Chairman Whitehouse’s remarks, as prepared for delivery:

Ranking Member Grassley, colleagues, welcome to our seventh Committee hearing on the economic and budgetary perils of dependence on fossil fuels. We have heard testimony from non-partisan, knowledgeable industry leaders about the threat climate change poses to entire sectors of our economy: healthcare, insurance, coastal economies, wildfire areas, the carbon bubble leaving fossil fuel assets stranded.

So, what are we, the federal government, doing to protect against these threats? Actually, we are subsidizing the danger.

As we’ll hear today, the United States subsidizes the fossil fuel industry with taxpayer dollars. It’s not just the US: according to the International Energy Agency, fossil fuel handouts hit a global high of $1 trillion in 2022 – the same year Big Oil pulled in a record $4 trillion of income.

In the United States, by some estimates taxpayers pay about $20 billion dollars every year to the fossil fuel industry. What do we get for that? Economists generally agree: not much. To quote conservative economist Gib Metcalf: these subsidies offer “little if any benefit in the form of oil patch jobs, lower prices at the pump, or increased energy security for the country.” The cash subsidy is both big and wrong.

But the really big subsidy is the license to pollute for free. The IMF calls this global free pass an “implicit” fossil fuel subsidy. Economists call it an “unpriced externality.” Behind these benign-sounding phrases is a lot of harm.

Start with harmful effects of local air pollution. Researchers from Harvard found pollutants from oil and gas combustion were responsible for 8.7 million premature deaths annually – the increased mortality rates from heat and air pollution we heard about at last week’s hearing.

Then, growing costs from intensifying disasters: wildfires, floods, droughts, which according to OMB could cost the federal budget $2 trillion annually and reduce US GDP 3 to 10 percent by the end of the century.

You tally up the harms, and the IMF estimates it at a $5.4 trillion annual subsidy worldwide. In the United States, it’s $646 billion – every single year.

Worse, this is almost certainly undercounting the true costs. The London School of Economics reports that studies often underestimate the harm of climate dangers by failing to account for how hazards can cascade across ecological and economic systems. These cascades can cause irreparable damage to human well-being, to ecosystems, and to the US economy. These are the systemic risks we’ve heard about from previous witnesses.

And as we will hear from one of our witnesses today, the very act of extracting these dirty fuels has terrible consequences for human health – especially for children. From higher rates of birth defects to childhood leukemia, there’s ample evidence that communities around oil and gas extraction sites pay an especially high price.

It's textbook economics that the price of a good should reflect its true cost. The fossil fuel industry violates this rule of market economies. It does so by spending billions of dollars on disinformation, false doubts, climate obstruction, and political dark money. And why not, to protect one of the most lucrative subsidies in human history? This, ladies and gentlemen, is why we can’t have nice things like clean air, safe coral reefs, secure coast lines, and affordable clean energy.

Over in the House, MAGA extremists are doubling down on polluter handouts to their big donors, with their Default on America Act that puts the American taxpayer on the hook for climate disaster.

It is not about debts or deficits. It’s dirty work for an industry that controls one of the main political parties in this country. Oil and gas extraction represents only about 5 percent of GDP. Farming, manufacturing, food and beverage, insurance, finance, restaurants, retail, housing, healthcare – all represent a larger share of GDP. Clean energy now accounts for more employment than the fossil fuel industry. But for political influence, to protect those massive subsidies, nothing compares to fossil fuel.

It is a fundamental principle of democracy that everyone should get an equal say. But here the rich and the powerful hoard all the benefits for themselves and leave everyone else – often the most vulnerable Americans – to pay the price.
Brewha
2 years ago

Wow. It’s like magic money!


HockeyDad wrote:




No - it's MY income that I would have gotten to keep!
HockeyDad
2 years ago


In the United States, by some estimates taxpayers pay about $20 billion dollars every year to the fossil fuel industry.

Brewha wrote:




You cite a speech by a politician as the basis for your fact?


What does “by some estimates” mean? What is the actual number? The subsidy for an electric car to the consumer is $7500.

How does $20 billion become “trillions”?

HockeyDad
2 years ago

No - it's MY income that I would have gotten to keep!

Brewha wrote:



…And the Federal government then issues a ten year treasury bill at 5% interest to borrow the money so that they can give it you.
DrMaddVibe
2 years ago
Oh stop...I was rather enjoying his little JG Wentworth whinefest.

Abrignac
2 years ago

…And the Federal government then issues a ten year treasury bill at 5% interest to borrow the money so that they can give it you.

HockeyDad wrote:



Which converts a deficit created by spending more than collected into a debt. Apparently not everyone can see past their own nose. Instead they quote a politician and accept what is said as fact.
HockeyDad
2 years ago

Oh stop...I was rather enjoying his little JG Wentworth whinefest.

DrMaddVibe wrote:



I’m just afraid I’m going to be asked to pay back his student loans.
DrMaddVibe
2 years ago

I’m just afraid I’m going to be asked to pay back his student loans.

HockeyDad wrote:



That's a given.

I can't wait till he comes out trans!
jeebling
2 years ago

https://www.budget.senate.gov/chairman/newsroom/press/sen-whitehouse-on-fossil-fuel-subsidies-we-are-subsidizing-the-danger-#:~:text=It's%20not%20just%20the%20US,to%20the%20fossil%20fuel%20industry.


SEN. WHITEHOUSE ON FOSSIL FUEL SUBSIDIES: “WE ARE SUBSIDIZING THE DANGER”
Washington, D.C.—U.S. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), Chairman of the U.S. Senate Budget Committee, delivered the following opening statement at today’s hearing entitled, “Who Pays the Price: The Real Cost of Fossil Fuels.”

Chairman Whitehouse’s remarks, as prepared for delivery:

Ranking Member Grassley, colleagues, welcome to our seventh Committee hearing on the economic and budgetary perils of dependence on fossil fuels. We have heard testimony from non-partisan, knowledgeable industry leaders about the threat climate change poses to entire sectors of our economy: healthcare, insurance, coastal economies, wildfire areas, the carbon bubble leaving fossil fuel assets stranded.

So, what are we, the federal government, doing to protect against these threats? Actually, we are subsidizing the danger.

As we’ll hear today, the United States subsidizes the fossil fuel industry with taxpayer dollars. It’s not just the US: according to the International Energy Agency, fossil fuel handouts hit a global high of $1 trillion in 2022 – the same year Big Oil pulled in a record $4 trillion of income.

In the United States, by some estimates taxpayers pay about $20 billion dollars every year to the fossil fuel industry. What do we get for that? Economists generally agree: not much. To quote conservative economist Gib Metcalf: these subsidies offer “little if any benefit in the form of oil patch jobs, lower prices at the pump, or increased energy security for the country.” The cash subsidy is both big and wrong.

But the really big subsidy is the license to pollute for free. The IMF calls this global free pass an “implicit” fossil fuel subsidy. Economists call it an “unpriced externality.” Behind these benign-sounding phrases is a lot of harm.

Start with harmful effects of local air pollution. Researchers from Harvard found pollutants from oil and gas combustion were responsible for 8.7 million premature deaths annually – the increased mortality rates from heat and air pollution we heard about at last week’s hearing.

Then, growing costs from intensifying disasters: wildfires, floods, droughts, which according to OMB could cost the federal budget $2 trillion annually and reduce US GDP 3 to 10 percent by the end of the century.

You tally up the harms, and the IMF estimates it at a $5.4 trillion annual subsidy worldwide. In the United States, it’s $646 billion – every single year.

Worse, this is almost certainly undercounting the true costs. The London School of Economics reports that studies often underestimate the harm of climate dangers by failing to account for how hazards can cascade across ecological and economic systems. These cascades can cause irreparable damage to human well-being, to ecosystems, and to the US economy. These are the systemic risks we’ve heard about from previous witnesses.

And as we will hear from one of our witnesses today, the very act of extracting these dirty fuels has terrible consequences for human health – especially for children. From higher rates of birth defects to childhood leukemia, there’s ample evidence that communities around oil and gas extraction sites pay an especially high price.

It's textbook economics that the price of a good should reflect its true cost. The fossil fuel industry violates this rule of market economies. It does so by spending billions of dollars on disinformation, false doubts, climate obstruction, and political dark money. And why not, to protect one of the most lucrative subsidies in human history? This, ladies and gentlemen, is why we can’t have nice things like clean air, safe coral reefs, secure coast lines, and affordable clean energy.

Over in the House, MAGA extremists are doubling down on polluter handouts to their big donors, with their Default on America Act that puts the American taxpayer on the hook for climate disaster.

It is not about debts or deficits. It’s dirty work for an industry that controls one of the main political parties in this country. Oil and gas extraction represents only about 5 percent of GDP. Farming, manufacturing, food and beverage, insurance, finance, restaurants, retail, housing, healthcare – all represent a larger share of GDP. Clean energy now accounts for more employment than the fossil fuel industry. But for political influence, to protect those massive subsidies, nothing compares to fossil fuel.

It is a fundamental principle of democracy that everyone should get an equal say. But here the rich and the powerful hoard all the benefits for themselves and leave everyone else – often the most vulnerable Americans – to pay the price.

Brewha wrote:




The only thing I can agree with here is that we don’t need to subsidize fossil fuels with taxes. Below that they get into half truths and disputed information - I suppose taking the opportunity to make a political stance. “Both sides” do this and it is equally frustrating to me. One idea bounced around is having all electric vehicles by 2030 or 35 or 45 or something in that range depending on which state or group is talking. That would put us net positive on carbon and pollution by the year 2100. The left doesn’t discuss that…neither does the right and that is doubly frustrating. And, to repeat an earlier complaint I had, this leaves citizens at each other’s throats. Government and global companies continue their BS and we end up fighting and fussing with each other.
RayR
2 years ago
Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D) is like every other double-talking POS politician.
He's against taxpayer subsidies, that's commendable...but only for those taxpayer subsidies for things he doesn't like and he'll raise a boogeyman to try to scare the bejesus out of the peasants to convince them of all the evils that will befall them if the thing is subsidized.

If it's a subsidy for something he likes, then he'll raise a boogeyman to try to scare the bejesus out of the peasants to convince them of all the evils that will befall them if the thing isn't subsidized.

HockeyDad
2 years ago

That's a given.

I can't wait till he comes out trans!

DrMaddVibe wrote:



If he came out as trans he could join the military!
Brewha
2 years ago

You cite a speech by a politician as the basis for your fact?

HockeyDad wrote:



Normally you would accept a YouTube link to a Joe Rogan rant as "FACT not opinion" (credit BuckyB for that charming turn of phase).

I don't know you anymore Le HockyDad.
First you trade in the family vehicle for a Green EV, then you doubt the government.
Did the Covid Jab "get" to you???
Brewha
2 years ago

…And the Federal government then issues a ten year treasury bill at 5% interest to borrow the money so that they can give it you.

HockeyDad wrote:



They will issue the bill having given me nothing. And if I did get the credit, I would have been given nothing.
What does nothing from nothing leave?
(this sound like a song....)
Brewha
2 years ago

I’m just afraid I’m going to be asked to pay back his student loans.

HockeyDad wrote:


I have none - now get back to work!
Brewha
2 years ago

That's a given.

I can't wait till he comes out trans!

DrMaddVibe wrote:



Sorry dude, I'm not your type, and spoke for.

Someone will come along for you - just keep the faith.
And the hair...
DrMaddVibe
2 years ago

Sorry dude, I'm not your type, and spoke for.

Someone will come along for you - just keep the faith.
And the hair...

Brewha wrote:




Nobody give a **** about a hookup with you!

Its so we can all laugh when you shove tampons up your ass when you drive your fartcar, you trendy narcissistic POS!
Brewha
2 years ago

Nobody give a **** about a hookup with you!

Its so we can all laugh when you shove tampons up your ass when you drive your fartcar, you trendy narcissistic POS!

DrMaddVibe wrote:



You know....I'm starting to think that you don't like me....
tonygraz
2 years ago
He's just brain-fried from living in Florida.
Speyside2
2 years ago
Pleeeeeeease, do not go Billy Preston on us. Even I have limits to my egalitarianism.
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