Mo, I asked three questions. Would you care to think about them and offer your answer? John made a point, I ask for ideas on how to solve a problem we have in America.

I also asked you a question on your ethics thread...would you care to answer that also?

Adroomi:

Previously you asked him to write in more of an APA style. In the words of our president, "that's hard work." Therefore don't expect him to come up with any logical writing soon. I wonder what DSM-IV category we should assign him however???

Wagner

I'm thinking 318.1 or 318.2 , one of the 290.xx's maybe??? Then there is 292.89, but then the big one 295.xx may be indicated here!

Wagner

Mo is hiding from me now. Either that or he's frantically trying to figure out how to get out of the corner he backed himself into.

what coorner? better than the closet.

I'll write APA style when you do. Otherwise, you're just another hypocrite.

Are you going to go back to your ethics thread now so we can further discuss "your" article? I'm quite interested in what you have to say about it. I'd like to delve deeper into the subject. Shall we meet there?

You mean you'll actually discuss the content?

Adroomi:
The answer to your 3 questions is a simple one, EDUCATION. The question you had asking why Americans are killing Americans is easy to hide behind. Firstly why not ask why man kills his fellow man..... its just so broad a question as to be a philosophical question for the ages. The question what can I do? Well, I say EDUCATE! Teach others by your actions and deeds that they may see truth of your wisdom. Lets face it guns have little to do with Americans killing Americans. They are merely a tool. Would you blame a pencil for causing a spelling mistake? The United States has more enough gun laws on the books. Why don't we focus our time on prosecuting the criminals that use guns and not blaming the guns themselves. The Second Amendment is there to ensure the People the Right to Bear Arms. Its pretty easy to understand. It only gets complicated when someone wants to play semantics with the wording to pervert it.
To challenge yourself and others to look inside themselves for the answers as to why we hurt each other and what we can do about it is a noble effort.
Lead by example and teach when given the opportunity. Be consistant in your dealings. These are things we can all do, but blaming guns for social ills is just short sighted.
God Bless America and God Bless the Armed American
rgds,
Tony

Tony,
We speak the same language man, I don't blame guns either. I am a collector, and I fully support the right to own them. I have never asked for that right to be taken away. I sat on capital hill during the Brady bill hearings and listened to my man from Alaska kick butt and fought for my rights.

I do get upset though, when I see the same crap over and over again about our government needing to be overthrown, etc etc.

I agree with you about education, and I do my best to try to educate when I can. I also feel that more needs to be done.

Wouldn't it be cool if the gun owners got together one day and instead of quoting dead presidents, helped the peacemakers to come up with a win/win solution to the problem?

Adroomi my friend, as I said I don't think we are too far off the same point. I am no radical spouting conspiracy theories or part of any group that wishes to overthrow the government. I am just one man that enjoys shooting sports, hunting, and firearms in general--- from the single shot smooth bore to the semi automatic and beyond.I appreciate firearms for many reasons like their aesthetic beauty, functional beauty, etc... as I believe you do also (as a collector). I also enjoy the comforts that I should be able to protect and defend myself and my family with these tools if the need should arise.
Guns are merely tools. How we interact with our fellow Man is a challenge each of us faces. I agree with you that we can always strive to do more ... to do better. I am always open to suggestion and discussion in these matters. Personally I think this whole matter breaks down into a simple matter of trust.Discussion leads to understanding, understanding leads to trust. Adroomi my friend I have enjoyed our discussion.
God Bless America and God Bless the Armed American.
--God Bless Us All
Tony

Pancho,
"Read some history or stay out of the deep water."

You couldn't tread water where I wade, Pancho.

"Gun guys" can't be convinced they don't have the right. They can't be convinced that guns in homes can lead to horror. "Control guys" can't be convinced that a responsible person can own and manage a gun like a tool. That a gun owner can pass along safety and respect to a child the same as if speaking about the table saw or the gas can in the garage.

I'm all for debate. I live it and earn from it but this one is head against brick wall stuff.
Try being in a room with a father who lost a son to a gun in the home and a father who saved the lives of his wife and brother by scaring off 2 intruders, one of them armed. The level of conviction and passion in both is scary. Only one other issue comes close in this country in being able to stir up that much passion.
Head against brick wall stuff.

Pancho, you made it personal.

I am apologizing in advance and I'm out. I can't believe I got sucked into something serious on a site I love and a site that reminds me of the good things.
Pancho, PAM26 for you if we ever get the chance to smoke together.
I'm out. See you on the cigar side.

Hi Everyone:

I am new to cigar.bid and I love the deals and the lively posts. I also think it is instructive that this debate takes place here, on a cigar site, for two reasons. One, there are fewer places offline to have this type of debate without fear of reprisal and , second, cigar smokers tend to be an independent lot.

The first has much to do with our rapidly disappearing freedoms and the second with the smoker war that has been the latest in a long litany of government laws designed to control the population. These are in the same category as seat belt laws, helmet laws, drug laws, and , yes, gun laws.

Without raising any new subjects, my favorite gun law story relates to the swiss armed militia. Every swiss citizen is required to keep, and train with a automatic rifle. This is part of their policy of armed neutrality. It is amazing that they stood up to the Germans and the US in WWII and made them both blink.

The Germans wanted to circumnavigate the French Maginot line through Switzerland and the Swiss said NEIN. They were a major thorn in the Hitler regime's backside in numerous ways yet were never invaded. Why? Three primary reasons: An armed populace, the policy of NO surrender under any circumstances, and , of course, the Alps. Contrast that with Austria who surrendered without a shot fired! Sadly, although the swiss learned the lesson of armed neutrality before their time, the didn't learn from our mistakes with international bankers. But that's a whole other story.

The US wanted to use the swiss airspace and the Swiss shot them down when they disobeyed the answer: NEIN!

Anyway, I think it is great you guys are having this and any debate in this or any forum. I am a relative newbie to cigar loving; but, I am an avid fan after the past year. Keep speaking your mind and don't let the fascists keep us good men and women down. All it takes for tyrants to prosper ...

Steve

The Swiss were also their bankers. Not a good policy to blow up your own banks.
The Swiss weren't brave. They were complicit.

This had nothing to do with complicity or bravery. It was a geopolitical ideology called armed neutrality.

It's three primary tenets were:

1)Never attack anyone outside your borders.

2)Never surrender, for any reason, to a foreign power.
(Fight to the last man's dying breath.)

3)Require ALL citizens to keep and train with an assault rifle and/or other military weaponry.

The swiss cantons were comprised of citizens - not bankers. The bankers of which you speak pledge to NO power other than their own. They are men without a country who rule the world. They may reside in this country or that but borders mean nothing to them.

The Swiss also had and still have the major roads, tunnels and bridges mined to prevent their use. It would have done no good to invade a country you couldn't pass through.

Every country that has taken it's people's right to arms away from them have seen a rise in crime and violence. I think this is the bottom line.

Bull,
Is that fact or just something you made up? I'm going to have to see some stats before you'll convince me, because I can't see that quite as being true. Please quote your sources for that info.

Blown away by ^