Just because I thought I'd pull this up:

http://www.cigarbid.com/FORUM/c/posts/62536/p/3/NSA-has-massive-database-of-Americans-phone-calls 

victor809 wrote:

Why is Snowden in trouble?

Because he leaked information that shows the administration abusing the Patriot Act.

One can debate whether this part of the Patriot Act was constitutional.
But there is no debate on whether the current abuse is per the original intent.

This is akin to defining "excessive force".
A cop can push you in the course of standard crowd control (think sporting event).
They should not thwack you with a billy club unless it is "deemed" necessary.
If a cop abuses their authority, it should be exposed.

This administration is abusing their authority. But too many of us feel comfortable blaming the law rather than the perpetrators.

Time to point them out and make them responsible. The law is flawed. But the individuals are guilty.

tailgater wrote:

I think TG is overplaying things because he is a little embarrased he let a police line touch his junk to make sure he wasn't hiding a Chechnian

teedubbya wrote:

Now the **** is going to start a huge uproar with us and CHINA!

Taps86 wrote:

nah they don't care if tailgator is continuously frisked

teedubbya wrote:

I think TG is overplaying things because he is a little embarrased he let a police line touch his junk to make sure he wasn't hiding a Chechnian

teedubbya wrote:

Angst and alarm alert!

teedubbya wrote:

Going in this direction is the equivalent of giving up, but you just can't let go.

We can debate how the Patriot Act became corrupt. We can even debate when and under which administration.
I understand your point of view. But your angst is once again misplaced.

The people who abuse the power granted by this poorly conceived law are the ones we should be directing our anger towards.
Your insatiable need to let people shirk responsibility is alarming.

tailgater wrote:

I didn't post in that linked thread so it never happened.
When I got up today I was a bit anxious and having problems urinating. So I stuck my thumb in my ass and yelled SNAKE.
Renaming my thumb NSA.
That name is da BOMB! OBAMA would laugh at that CONSERVATIVE joke.......

ZRX1200 wrote:

The legislature has known or voted for this. The proper representatives have been advised and have known- and been able to keep their mouths shut. the warrants have been alleged to approved by the judiciary.


Now, there certainly is the issue of whether our rights are being violated. Not to me if legislature approved and had oversight and courts participated in true due process for the warrants, whether we like it or not. Warrants are never publicly published before the fact of seizure or arrest. This does not appear to differ. The 4th protects against UNREASONABLE search and seizure, not all search and seizure.

Personally, I am not surprised or bothered by this as long as there has been both legislative and judicial oversight. If the secret warrants are truly the "least restrictive means" of obtaining info covertly, then I feel this is not unlawful per se.

rfenst wrote: