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opelmanta1900
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#21

and of course, now there is no way to stop weapon development, unless the rest of the countries involved keep it alive.

frankj1 wrote:

there already wasnt... under the former agreement, there was zero access to any military sites... zero...

dstieger
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#22

Why Iran (or NK) would give up their nuclear aspirations is completely lost on me. There are no carrots big enough. Probably no sticks, either.

Look at it from their POV; "There's what...nine countries with nukes out there? Why not us? Why does US have the right to tell us that we can't create a nuke? I don't see anyone sanctioning France....or Pakistan....Or, Israel." Having a nuke is one of the absolute biggest things that an authoritarian leader can use to show his people how bad-azz their country is. Nothing legitimizes their position on the world stage like a nuke, in their eyes -- or at least how they think their people would view them. In fact, US, NATO, Soviet Union, etc have had little problem putting nukes into other countries....I'll bet nuclear weapons have been staged in two dozen different countries in the last 30 years. I'm no proponent of nukes and would support some sort of verifiable global denuclearization, but if anyone thinks that some sabre rattling is going to make Rouhani or Fatty Fat give up nukes for good, they're quite delusional.

I did hear Trump say something about eventual denuclearization of the entire Korean Peninsula. I thought that was interesting. I wonder if Moon was caught off guard by that one....or if he just shrugged, knowing that Trump would promise whatever Kim wanted to hear and then do whatever Trump wants to do.

delta1
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#23

The South Koreans were the first to mention the denuclearization of the entire peninsula, when they announced that KJU was willing to meet with Trump during their visit to the WH a couple of months ago. He (Moon) and the SK leaders are not getting much credit for their part in lowering the loud talk and starting some quiet diplomacy there...

It's in Moon's interest to reduce the hostility level and the amount of weaponry on all sides of the Korean Peninsula. He's got much more to lose if bombs start flying.

I miss the days of Reagan's GOP...when the cons believed it was a good thing for all sides and the world to limit the arms race. It was his finest achievement.

Edited by user 8 years ago | Reason: Not specified

Speyside
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#24

The Iran deal was flawed beyond reason from day 1. 24 days notice had to be given for inspections. If you think Iran cannot sanitize a facility in 24 days you are blind to the truth. The right decision was made to scrap this mess.

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#25

Trust, but verify.

Trump is being upfront regarding NK.
Obama ignored the "verify" part with Iran.

And Trump is us. Just like Obama was us back when he overrode Congress to enter into the deal initially.

tailgater wrote:

Huh... what are the particulars of the Trump NK deal again? Where does it talk about being upfront or verifying. For that matter where did the iran deal say no verification. I know some of the blogsphere says that but I don't turn to Mort for my info.

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#26

Speyside wrote:

What difference does it make anyway when we can simply say we don't believe them or the inspectors?

Signed Hans Blix

tailgater
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

8 years ago

#27

teedubbya wrote:

I don't know the details.
Trump has remained the aggressor in these discussions. He isn't kissing NK butt like Obama did with Iran.
None of us know all the details, but when an Iran deal includes a month's notice for inspections, and provides hundreds of billions of US dollars up front that isn't a level playing field from the very start. Now with Israeli intel at the 11th hour, I think pulling out is the right decision.
Even the dems didn't push to implement Obama's deal. He had to do it on his own.

I don't trust the moonbeam in NK.
But thankfully, neither does our President.

I'm actually more afraid that Trump will pizz him off and shatter the deal than I am of signing a deal and not monitoring them properly.

But that's just my ample gut feeling.

delta1
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#28

Here is an explanation of the components of the Iran Nuclear deal. Claim 7 was the most persuasive to me, for keeping the deal...and why I think that our withdrawal nudges us closer to a "military solution to a nuclear Iran"

https://armscontrolcenter.org/the-real-facts-on-the-iran-nuclear-negotiations/

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#29

tailgater wrote:

That right there is void of any supporting fact.

There are no agreements, they are at the very beginning and may or may not even happen.

You like Trump but not Obama. Thats all you are really saying.

frankj1
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#30

everyone seems much more knowledgeable than me about the details, but I know one major error...this is/was not an Iran-USA deal.

We are one of many nations.

tailgater
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

8 years ago

#31

Tw
Re 29
I don't "like" trump. Never cared for him. Never watched his TV. Stay in his hotel.
But I like his political ideas. Despite his tactics. I like things that are effective.

Conversely, I like Obama the man. The classy public persona.
But despise his politics.

I disliked the Iran deal from day one.

Your post is simplistic and misses the major points.

I missed that.
Welcome back.

frankj1
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#32

can TW come to dinner wif us?

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#33

tailgater wrote:

Lol. I was talking about as President you like trump not obama. TV shows and hotels have nothing to do with it. Talk about simplistic and missing major points.

Obama kisses butt of Iran and comes up with a bad deal (it’s not a US or Obama deal.... but we are a part of it) but Trump doesn’t (on a deal that hasn’t even begun to be negotiated yet)

The non existent deal (or efforts behind it) has distinct characteristics that make it better than the exisistent deal.

Yup. You like trump not obama (not as a bedmate or buddy.... I don’t know you that well).

Let’s make it really simple. Obama wanted to kiss Iran’s but but Trump wants to be really really tough with NK. If you think that’s factual, non biased or remotely true then you are living in a fantasy.

Have fun at dinner.

Edited by user 8 years ago | Reason: Not specified

DrafterX
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#34

I wanna go... 😟

frankj1
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#35

I wanna go... 😟

DrafterX wrote:

sounds like tw can't make it.
you still wanna come?

DrafterX
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#36

Of course.. we can get TW somethin to go in one of those tin foil chikens.. 😟

tailgater
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

8 years ago

#37

can TW come to dinner wif us?

frankj1 wrote:

As long as I'm not behind him in the buffet.

tailgater
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

8 years ago

#38

teedubbya wrote:

Iran Deal: The United States gave $250 Billion dollars. We'll ask nicely for them to only use nuclear capacity for good energy. (you know, because they don't have resources like oil...). And we'll keep a careful eye on your weapons, but with ample notice before we inspect anything.

In the meantime, Trump took his oath while Moonbeam NK was testing intercontinental ballistic missiles. Japan and Hawaii were on high alert. They held parades for the weapons. The only one allowed to speak with Moonbeam was Dennis Rodman. Things couldn't have looked worse.

We know we can't trust kim moonbeam on his word. We'll be vigilant on that, and if we're not then I'll change my opinion on this matter.
There was never any such plan for vigilance with Iran. Which is why I opposed it from day one.

You say it's politics.
I'm telling you it's the details.

You want the game to be over before you choose a side.
But you're still invited to dinner.
Frank's paying.

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#39

There are no details and those you site about the Iran deal are skewed. You are not playing this down the middle or just being logical. You give zero benefit of the doubt to Bammy and a ton to Trump. You certainly are not thinking like Spock.

Me and buffets. Ironically the person in front of me has it just as bad as the person behind me.

Phil222
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#40

TG, did we really give them $250 billion?

I thought that the money Iran recieved was technically theirs anyways, (frozen money, and money from an unfulfilled weapons deal from before the Iranian people overthrew our puppet over there). I think Obama actually paid them way less than what we could have ended up owing them. I'm not an expert on this deal, but it seemed like one of Obama's better accomplishments to me. (Might not have happened without U.S. involvement)

I have not been following the news; has Trump mentioned what he disliked about the deal or what he plans to do to improve upon it?

Edited by user 8 years ago | Reason: Not specified

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