rfenst
2 years ago

I checked MSNBC and it said Trump was facing 764 years in prison.

HockeyDad wrote:


Serves you right.
RayR
2 years ago
I heard Joe Stranosa is proud of Hunter's criminal activities, a real chip off the old block.
Later this year, Hunter will go on trial again for not paying his fair share to the Reich, won't he?
rfenst
2 years ago

I do not know of any such database(s). But, I am sure SOMEONE has done the research and has answered your question. I don't know about the other questions either. My bet is that the gun charge and the business records falsification conviction do not ordinarily result in jail time for first offenders. But, I will look...

rfenst wrote:



"New York State Has Issued Nearly 9,800 Felony Charges of Falsifying Business Records Since 2015
Data shows 9,794 cases involving state penal law 175.10, or falsifying business records in the first degree, have been arraigned in both local and superior New York state courts since 2015.
...

Former President Donald Trump is far from the first person to face felony charges of falsifying business records—New York state has arraigned almost 9,800 cases involving the same charge since 2015, according to available data.

Trump on Tuesday entered a “not guilty” plea to an indictment charging him with 34 counts of falsifying business records, a Class E felony. Prosecutors allege the documents were doctored in connection with a scheme to suppress negative information about Trump prior to the 2016 presidential election...."



New York Law Journal
April 06, 2023

https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2023/04/06/new-york-state-has-issued-nearly-9800-felony-charges-of-falsifying-business-records-since-2015/ 
rfenst
2 years ago
What are the criminal charges and likely defense in Hunter Biden's gun trial?


Reuters
WILMINGTON, Delaware, June 3 (Reuters) - Hunter Biden, the son of U.S. President Joe Biden, is scheduled to go on trial on June 3 in Delaware on charges he violated federal gun laws in 2018 when he purchased a firearm.

Below is a look at the charges, evidence and potential sentence if he is found guilty. Hunter Biden has pleaded not guilty.

WHAT ARE THE CHARGES?
Hunter Biden was charged in September by U.S. Special Counsel David Weiss with three felonies stemming from his purchase and possession of a Colt Cobra .38 revolver in October 2018.

The first two charges overlap. He is accused of making a false statement material to a firearms sale and making a false statement in a firearms transaction record.

Prosecutors contend he committed a crime when he ticked a box indicating "no" next to a question asking if he was an unlawful user of a controlled substance or addicted to a controlled substance.

The third charge is that Hunter Biden violated a law that bars users of illegal drugs or drug addicts from possessing a firearm.

He was separately charged with tax crimes in California in December, also brought by Weiss. Hunter Biden has pleaded not guilty in that case which is scheduled to go to trial in September.

WHAT DOES THE GOVERNMENT HAVE TO PROVE?
For the first two charges, the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Hunter Biden knowingly made a false statement. For one of the first two charges the government must also show the false statement was material to the sale of the gun.

For the possession charge, the government must prove the following elements: that Biden was either an unlawful user of a controlled substance or was a drug addict; that he knowingly possessed a firearm; and that when he knowingly possessed the firearm he also knew he was an unlawful user of a controlled substance or a drug addict.

WHAT IS THE GOVERNMENT'S EVIDENCE?
The government said it has videos and photographs of Hunter Biden smoking crack or with drug paraphernalia as well as messages sent to purported street dealers arranging drug purchases. The evidence was collected from Biden's iCloud account, laptop and phone messages, prosecutors have said.

The government said it may call Hunter Biden's ex-wife, Kathleen Buhle, and other romantic partners to describe his addiction around the time of the gun purchase and possession.

Prosecutors said they plan to introduce excerpts from Biden's 2021 book, Beautiful Things, in which he described himself as a "crack addict" with no plans beyond "the moment-to-moment demands of the crack pipe."

WHAT HAS BIDEN'S LEGAL TEAM SAID?
Some details of Hunter Biden's potential defense can be gleaned from court filings.

Biden's legal team has ridiculed some of the evidence that has surfaced in court filings, comparing some of the work by Weiss's office to that of the slapstick Police Academy films of the 1980s. In one instance, Biden's legal team said what prosecutors claimed was a photo of cocaine was actually sawdust.

Hunter Biden's legal team did not respond to a request for comment.

WHAT IS THE POTENTIAL SENTENCE?
If the jury finds Hunter Biden guilty, he faces up to 25 years in prison, although sentences are typically shorter than the maximum, according to the Department of Justice. As in all U.S. federal criminal cases, the jury of 12 must unanimously agree on a conviction.

ARE THE CHARGE AGAINST HUNTER BIDEN UNUSUAL?
Yes. The government rarely charges someone for false statements on gun purchase forms unless the accused is also charged with a violent crime, according to a Government Accountability Office report, opens new tab cited by Hunter Biden's legal team. More than 80 million American adults own a firearm, but only about 1,000 a year are investigated for false statements on a gun purchase form, and even fewer are charged, according to the GAO.


WHO IS THE JUDGE?
Maryellen Noreika, who was nominated by President Donald Trump and joined the court in 2018. Previously she was a lawyer at the prominent Delaware firm Morris, Nichols, Arsht & Tunnell, where she specialized in intellectual property litigation in federal court. She obtained her law degree from the University of Pittsburgh School of law in 1993.
DrafterX
2 years ago
Tears today... that'll convince a jury he's innocent... 😟
jeebling
2 years ago
rfenst, I think when this happens the guilty party usually restricted from certain things such as obtaining a carry permit. Would that be up to the state in which the person applies for the permit? Or does the background check carry the weight of prohibition? For example, my understanding is that if a person has a conviction of domestic abuse they are flagged on the background check and they can’t get a carry permit or buy a firearm in any state. I suppose I could research this myself but I was wondering if you happen to know the answer already.
If most people are not convicted of a crime but they are prohibited from carrying or buying a firearm, then I’d be satisfied if that is the outcome with Hunter Biden that charge.

“ ARE THE CHARGE AGAINST HUNTER BIDEN UNUSUAL?
Yes. The government rarely charges someone for false statements on gun purchase forms unless the accused is also charged with a violent crime, according to a Government Accountability Office report, opens new tab cited by Hunter Biden's legal team. More than 80 million American adults own a firearm, but only about 1,000 a year are investigated for false statements on a gun purchase form, and even fewer are charged, according to the GAO.”

As far as tossing the firearm in a public trash can goes, I think that is a separate crime and more serious than lying on the paperwork. Once again, I’m relying on anecdotal experience so I’m just not sure if I’m correct. I’ll internet search this one but happy to hear your thoughts if you have any you’d care to share.
rfenst
2 years ago

As far as tossing the firearm in a public trash can goes, I think that is a separate crime and more serious than lying on the paperwork. Once again, I’m relying on anecdotal experience so I’m just not sure if I’m correct. I’ll internet search this one but happy to hear your thoughts if you have any you’d care to share.

jeebling wrote:


It's nothing but a ton of B.S.

No reasonable person would rid themself of a gun that way.

If I was prosecuting him I would argue that: The way he did it was so abnormal and obviously dangerous that discarding the gun in a public trash can is an indicator of the terribly wrong decisions can addicts make.
BuckyB93
2 years ago
Who the F would just toss a working firearm in the common trash? That alone should be a felony.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHzh0PvMWTI

At least disable it so it cannot function and scrap it. Then again this is not the average Joe, it's the President's son so laws don't apply to stuff like this even though they are clearly violated.
BuckyB93
2 years ago
Tree six NINE!
rfenst
2 years ago

Who the F would just toss a working firearm in the common trash? That alone should be a felony.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHzh0PvMWTI

At least disable it so it cannot function and scrap it. Then again this is not the average Joe, it's the President's son so laws don't apply to stuff like this even though they are clearly violated.

BuckyB93 wrote:


It's not b/c he's the president's son. They don't regularly prosecute the alleged crime. Nevertheless, he broke the law and needs to pay for it the same way others in his situation (not including being the president's son) do.
jeebling
2 years ago
The paperwork threatens a fine for false statements. I would think a fine of some amount would be appropriate for the false statement and also restricted from concealed permit eligibility for a specific period of time in which no other gun crimes or violent crimes are committed. Something like that sounds routine and fair. Throwing Hunter in jail for 25 years for lying on the application is not what I consider fair. That would be too much and I would think it is politically motivated to make the Biden’s look bad. Just be fair is all I ask.
frankj1
2 years ago
perhaps I heard/read the report incorrectly, but wasn't the gun tossed in the trash can by his sister-in-law?
DrafterX
2 years ago
No, she said Hunter threw her in a dumpster when he was all cracked up... 😟
rfenst
2 years ago

perhaps I heard/read the report incorrectly, but wasn't the gun tossed in the trash can by his sister-in-law?

frankj1 wrote:


If so, she might be in the best position to know if Hunter was addicted at the time.
Anyone know what her testimony was or will be???
frankj1
2 years ago
for entertainment value, I like Drafter's answer better
DrafterX
2 years ago
Well, that's what I heard... 😟
JGKAMIN
2 years ago

perhaps I heard/read the report incorrectly, but wasn't the gun tossed in the trash can by his sister-in-law?

frankj1 wrote:


Sister-in-law/widow of brother/girlfriend…


Biden is accused of lying about his drug use when he purchased a pistol on Oct. 12, 2018. Eleven days later, Hallie Biden — who is the widow of Beau Biden and was dating Hunter at the time — found the gun in his truck and tried to get rid of it.

Prosecutors have spent most of the four-day trial trying to prove the depths of Biden’s drug abuse, including around the time he bought the gun. Hallie provided critical testimony on that point Thursday morning.

But later in the day, prosecutors turned to a different part of the story: what happened to the gun after Hallie Biden threw it in a trash can outside a high-end grocery store two minutes from her Wilmington home. She soon regretted the decision and returned to the store — but it was gone. So she spoke to a store manager, and they called the police.

As prosecutors tried to show what happened next, the trial departed from its otherwise grave subject matter and took on the air of a slapstick caper about a quest for a missing gun. The primary narrators were a pair of locals who were called to the stand to testify. Jurors grinned at each other and shared Tic Tacs as they listened.

First up was Millard Greer, a police officer who was tasked with finding the weapon.

There was a promising lead: Security camera footage showed an old man near the trash can where Hallie Biden had left the gun.

Greer told jurors how he questioned people at the shopping center about the man. Many had seen him, as he was in the habit of scavenging through garbage cans for recyclables.

After several days of surveilling the area, Greer laid eyes on him, poking around the numerous trash cans on the perimeter of the tidy strip mall.

The officer confronted him and commented that someone had put something into a trash can that they shouldn’t have.

“Yes they did!” replied the man, named Edward Banner.

What was it? Greer asked.

“A thirty-eight special,” he said.

Banner then took Greer to his modest split-level home. But there was a problem: He had forgotten his keys, and he’d locked himself out.

Banner started panicking, and pounded on the door. His wife was inside napping. He finally banged long enough to wake her up.

“Things got a little weird at that moment,” Greer said.

As soon as she opened the door, Banner rushed up the stairs.

“Woah, woah, woah,” Greer recalled saying. “There’re guns here!”

Banner soon presented Greer with a box containing rolled-up socks.

“‘I think this is what you’re looking for,’” Banner said, in Greer’s recollection. “And he pulls out a sock that has a gun in it.”

Then he pulled out another sock, with another gun. The Colt pistol that Biden had bought was in one of the socks, Greer testified. The other held a semi-automatic handgun that a coworker had given to Greer for safekeeping more than a decade earlier.

At one point, Greer launched into an elaborate explanation — complete with technical terms and broad hand gestures — about the difference between a semi-automatic weapon and a pistol like the one Biden bought. It was more than anyone had asked for, and the lawyer questioning him quickly moved on.

Then it was time to hear from Banner, a diminutive 80-year-old with a shuffling gait, a blue blazer, and a very pink face.

Judge Maryellen Noreika helped him carefully lower himself into the witness seat. Prosecutor Derek Hines, a tall man with a booming voice, then greeted him. But Banner showed no sign he heard it. A courtroom staffer hurried over and offered him a headset. He slid it about on his head a bit, but it didn’t seem to help. So Hines walked across the courtroom, stood right next to Banner, stooped, and spoke to him more loudly and more slowly.

Banner told the jury about his unusual hobby: searching through Wilmington’s trash cans for recyclables and then driving them to New York to sell them at 25 to 75 cents per pound. He earns about $120 per trip, he said.

“You’re both saving the environment and making a little money on the side,” Hines said slowly and loudly.

“Especially now, with gas prices!” Banner retorted.


He then showed Banner the security footage depicting him near the shopping center trash can.

What was in there? Hines asked.

A Colt thirty-eight, Banner replied, as well as “a black cylinder-like thing you could load the gun with or whatever,” he said.

What did he do with the gun?

“I put it on the top shelf in the closet,” he said.

Hines asked him about the police’s involvement. Did an officer approach him in the parking lot?

“Possibly!” Banner replied. “I don’t remember exactly how that all came about.”

Abbe Lowell, Biden’s lead defense lawyer, cross-examined Banner about the episode. He asked if there were bullets in the gun when Banner found it.

“I certainly didn’t take any out and I didn’t put any in!” he replied, a bit crossly.

And did Banner put the gun in a sock? Lowell asked loudly.

“I don’t remember no sock!” Banner retorted.

Did Banner put a different gun in a sock? Lowell queried.

“I know nothing about no sock!”

“I didn’t need either gun!” he added.

The questioning quickly ended.



Starting to wonder if this Banner fella isn’t our very own Jonesy…
frankj1
2 years ago
not sure Jonesy wears socks?
BuckyB93
2 years ago
That's exactly what he wants you to think. Don't take the bait. He wears socks over his Pantyhose like Joe Namath.

Tree seven NINE!
Ram27
2 years ago
"GUILTY ON ALL CHARGES"
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