Lets see, how should I respond...I'll start with the one question that was thrown in amoungst all the kill em all and let God sort them out logic. I do believe that all killings are murders and therefore wrong, with that said sadly I agree that some wars in the past appear to have been necessary, with World War II as an example. The reason I say appear is because I was not alive during the war and I only have history, mostly written by the victors, to judge the wars worth by. But war is hell, and should be avoided at all costs.

Secondly, I do not consider myself to be a bleeding heart liberal. I support many conservative views as well as liberal ones. I choose what I believe on my own based on all the information available and do not fit into either a liberal or conservative view, and take offense at being labeled as either.

As to those who asked for alternative punishment, I believe that life in prision is the appropriate answer, real life in prision with no parol. We are punishing them for killing people they mave have believed were bad, so who are we to kill them just cause we think they are bad. Feel free to leave it to God to decide, but realize those of you condemning these people may fare no better when and if judgement comes.

My stance is that I respect everyones life, and that nothing justifys taking someone elses life. However, we all must make our own judgements and when put in a kill or be killed position i can not say what i would choose to do. With Iraq we are not in this position, and there is no reason to kill any soliders in a war at this time.

No evidence has been presented to prove Iraq has done anything to threathen us lately. If some came to light I could atleast understand the warmongering, but none has and so I can only view you as sheep who don't value human life and do whatever our president says.

Would you give your own son or daughter for this war?

RICKAMAVEN
I also wanted to thank you for your support

Sonny,Another scenario. Your daughter is wrongly accused of murder,found guilty and summarily executed. Shortly after,evidence exonerates her. What now brown cow? X

NO, X lets put it this way instead! Your daughter gets killed. The killer doesnt get the death penalty. Instead he goes to prison for life, and becomes a rock star on VH2 the music channel. THIS ISNT A GOD DAMN JOKE! IT HAPPENNED!!!!!!!

Mag

What I just mentioned was on the O'Riely factor if you want to check it out. "Jailhouse Rock" Its happenned twice now!

Mag

Mag,I'll bet more innocent people have executed than murderers have become rock stars. BTW,did you read my first post? X

I hesitate to comment here after not thoroughly reading each and every post, but I get the gist of it.

This whole fiasco appalls me...I believe and support the death penalty (and all other laws of the land - even though I may not agree with some laws, they still are laws - that's why I vote) and for this Govenor to make these day late and dollar short commutes of sentences is totally absurd and an excruciating blow to the VICTIM'S families.

Just think of how many more heinous criminals are NOT behind bars that ought to be compared to those that were stupid or careless enough to get caught.

It would have to be an incredible turn of events for an innocent person to go so far as to get onto death row, although it has happened and there's no denying that.

True, if one has been wrongly imprisoned and subsequently executed...woe on the hands that caused the injustice. There isn't enough money in any lawsuit that would 'right' that, in my eyes.

But, with what I imagine death row crimes to be, I would think that surely there would be DNA evidence involved that could be brought back into play even after many, many years and hopefully exhonorate those unjustly serving time (if any).

The hand that this Govenor played out was extremely poor politics and my sympathies go out to the victim's families...

X, I respect your opinion. But your opinion isnt state law. Until it is, your opinion should be all it is, your opinion.
The people have voted, thats how this country works. By hopefully, the wishes of the majority who have voted. Had this Gov. run with this as part of his platform, maybe he wouldnt have ever been Gov.
He had said earlier, that the cases would be handled on an individual case basis. He lied.
Is this how you want politicians to act on other issues also? Maybe the next one will be one that was voted & passed that you agree with. How would you like that. Would it make you feel like your vote counted? NO!
If you want change, the people that want it, must vote!
Not any one man has enough wisdom to overturn the wishes of the majority. If he did, would you go for a dictatorship? Thats what it amounts to!

Think about it.

Mag

This isn't about pro-death penalty or anti-death penalty. It is about the ex-Governor of Illinois giving BLANKET COMMUTATION to 167 prisoners on death row without reviewing on a case by case basis. He circumvented the law so as to shut the spotlight off on his own criminal wrongdoing! Illinois has the death penalty on its books and if the the ex-Governor had wanted, he could have worked with the Legislature to abolish the Death-Penalty. He took the easy way out and now will most likely get nominated for the Nobel Peace prize as a result. A Northwestern Law Professor is indeed nominating him for this grand award with the backing of Mr. Jesse Jackson. On a side note, the legal assault on Mr. Ryan's bone-headed decision has begun. The Cook County State's Attorney, Richard Devine, has asked the Illinois Supreme Court to void 10 of the commutations arguing that these ten convicted murderers had already been removed from death row by the Appellate Court for new sentencing hearings, thus they were not on death row. The Will County State's Attorney, Jeff Tomzcak, is arguing that many of the commutations should be reversed because of an Illinois Law that requires the defendant to submit a written request for commutation. It ain't over till it's over!

Rick,
I have to disagree with your assertion, the death penalty does not deter crime. It is a specific deterrent to the inmate executed. He will surely never kill another person after the death sentence is carried out. A man does not changes his ways just because he is locked-up. An inmate on death row is just as likely to kill again just as he is if the sentence is commuted to life in prison.

eleltea

i saw some of the films of speck "enjoying" his life in prison. remember at night he is locked in a cage like the animal he was.

can you think of anything that would make being locked in a cage every night for the rest of your life an "enjoyment".

jjohnson28

nothing.

i was mentioning to JonRP, that he should not let the few that disagree with his viewpoint, get hime down.

Magnafide

"bleeding heart liberals" is a term used on the radio stations you must listen to. i listen to a right wing, call in radio station as much as i can while i'm driving. george putnam, some right wing movie reviewer, whose name escapes me, and i have not ever heard them use that expression. i listen to them so i can learn where the next trouble is coming from. ie: ru-486, the "killer" drug, "while i don't agree with the man that killed the doctor that worked at a hospital that performed abortion, i can understand his motivation" bull**** of the highest order, "people on welfare should work and not get paid for irresponsible sex and the birth of babies they can't afford." while we are close to or above 6% unemployment. "there are jobs, you just have to look for them" in mexico at american plants that have relocated to avoid every and all of the protections this country has helped working men and women earn.

jjohnson28

"killing innocent unborn children" is a christian religious definition. it is not a universal truth.

i personally would mot want to abort a potential child of mine, but what other people do is their own business, not your church's.

therein lies the never to be resolved problem.

"i believe in my church and my god, therefore your church and your god aren't authentic. as a matter of fact, i will start several crusades and convert or kill all you heathens because my church and my god tell me to. i don't give a **** what your church or your god says, you are wrong and i am right, now let me kill you in the name of all that is holy and righteous.

I have to add another .02 cents here

(" while we are close to or above 6% unemployment. "there are jobs, you just have to look for them" in mexico at american plants that have relocated to avoid every and all of the protections this country has helped working men and women earn. )
Ricky it was Clinton and the Demo's who opened up Nafta and Gat if you look back on your history books a few years.. that allowed the Mexicans to take over in the Free Trade... that also opened up allot of Unemployment in this country "Again feeding the American People with B@LL$Hit and knowing full well what the effect in the long run would be....

And Also a Person should not get cought up so much with the Church or the Pastor so much as they should with what is writen in the Bible and do there best to live by that...No one else has the right to Judge another but this Happens... but one day we all will be Judged Rightiously (sp)

Hog

Hog,

Not so fast on NAFTA, "Clinton and the Dems"...



Ronald Reagan
Presidential Library

November 13, 1979
While officially declaring his candidacy for President, Ronald Reagan proposes a “North American Agreement” which will produce “a North American continent in which the goods and people of the three countries will cross boundaries more freely.”

January 1981
President Ronald Reagan proposes a North American common market.

http://www.fina-nafi.org/chrono_accord_nord_americain_ang.html 

But they did not come into force until????

The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) and its parallel agreements on the environment and labor issues came into force on January 1 1994, five years after the Canada-US Free Trade Agreement (FTA).
I think Billy was in power then and it was a Major push at that time BY the Dems to get it inacted
AND The Rest of the Story -------->
http://www.fina-nafi.org/alena_bref_ang.html 

My Wife is a former Truck Driver along with other members of my Family... she told me they had to Swap Trailers in Mexico the Company's Trailer going in was in Great Shape the one Coming out was never Road ready for our roads and System IE:US DOT but that country gets away with it on an Hourly Basis who does it hurt US Economy our pocketbooks... along with allot of the parts and equipment our Military uses is built across the boarder in Mexico we inturn on allot of the things ship it back or fix it correctly to use it... another Cost Loss not saved by the Lustorous plan...

Hog

Rick,
I'd like to answer one of your questions.
You ask who would consider being locked up in cage every evening to be "enjoyment"?
Answer: The same filth that enjoys killing innocent people.
Just because you and I and most responsible people would HATE to be in prison for even one night, doesn't mean that the sub-human bile that populate our highest security prisons and death row would also feel that way. Heck, to them it's likely an improvement.

Three Hot's and a Cot !!

Being in prison becomes a way of life for some ... they don't have to work, they don't have to compete, they don't have to do any critical thinking ... they have a certain constant "comfort" level and three squares a day ... and if you don't realize there are those for whom this is a chosen way of living, there's not a lot 'gater, myself, or anyone else can tell you ...

Ask any of the guys in this forum who're in law-enforcement ... it's a fact ... some people really and truly don't want to leave prison ... and if they ARE set free, they will deliberately do something to be sent back ... it would not and could not be MY choice, and I can tell from 'gaters remarks that his attitudes are like mine, but you'd be surprised to learn how many people DO make conscious and deliberate choices that they KNOW full well will put them in slam ...