tailgater
19 years ago
p,
In post 29 you state that monitary awards are based on earnings, etc.

You then ignore the intent of my response and discuss that certain large payouts are in fact punitive.

Well, on that we can agree, but I believe you're making my point.
I must thank you for that.

Enjoy your weekend.
jpotts
19 years ago
pmn1:

"Do You only read the Headlines or BIG LETTERS? The McDonalds case was overturned on appeal In Fact the majority of the verdict was for PUNITIVE damages which is to penalize Large Corporations for a systemic problem or to put simply to hit them where it hurts ie pocketbook otherwise they would simply write it off. So the large award was not to compensate a injured party but rather to penalise or fine a party for REALLY BAD CONDUCT."

Punative damages are arbitrarially set. I once heard that the reason why McDonalds was to blame for the burns was because they used "cheap" beans, and needed extra-hot water to make coffee.

The maximum temperature water can reach is the boiling point. After that, it's called "steam" which doesn't really fit well in a cup. Most coffee is made from water that is boiled or raised to a temperature near the boiling point so that you can extract the appropriate substances from the roasted beans. Using "cheap" beans has nothing to do with it.

But that's the kind of BS that's used to award "punative damages".

So, essentially, McDonalds was punished for making coffee the way coffee has ALWAYS been made for the last 400-or-so years. Those damn evil, greedy corporations!

By the way, before anyone goes off on how the employee did nothing to help the lady after she spilled her coffee (with the exception of handing her some napkins), realize that drive-thru window operators are not supposed to leave their positions, or even the store in some instances, to prevent robberies. Your average loss control consultant who specializes in retail and/or food management establishments will tell you that.

So, in short, McDonalds got punished for making coffee they wey the entire coffee-drinking public likes and makes their coffee, and for doing things that they were consulted to do in order to prevent loss.

Diabolical! No wonder they got sued.
stapletonj
19 years ago
I'm sorry, but most of you who are ranting on about the McDonald's coffee case really had the facts wrong.

First the lady had third-degree burns in her vaginal area.
Second, the offer to settle for medical expenses only was open until the jury came back after the trial. McDonald's offered zero.
Third at trial it was proved that injuries of this sort were occurring on an almost daily basis at McDonald's and they had absolutely no intention of doing anything about it.
fourth, it was proved a trial that McDonald's intentionally, after brewing, kept their coffee at some 20 to 30° hotter temperature than any other restaurant.

fifth, the punitive damages awarded (which were overturned on appeal) were the equivalent of two days gross coffee sales at McDonald's. Not two day's gross sales, not two days gross breakfast sales, two days coffee sales.

There's a lot more about this case,but I simply don't have the time to dig it all up. No I'm not an ambulance chaser, I am a general practitioner in the majority of my practice is bankruptcy law and domestic law. only about 20% of my firms practice is plaintiff's personal-injury and 99% of that is your simple garden-variety car wreck.

I am truly sorry that in the wake of hurricane Katrina insurance companies, who are continuing to rake in profits at record levels as they have for last seven or eight years, have elected to double your insurance premiums, but are you really naïve enough to believe that the level of plaintiff verdicts, which over the last 10 years have not increased faster than the rate of inflation in general (government figures), are the cause for your insurance premium increases?
jpotts
19 years ago
stapeltonj:

Frankly speaking, I'm glad the thing got overturned on appeal.



"First the lady had third-degree burns in her vaginal area."

If I remember from my boyscout handbook, thrid-degree burns imply charred skin, and or the removal of skin. My mother-in-law had to pour an entire port of boling water over her arm to even get to that point. So, that must have been one helluva cup of coffee. The best I've ever gotten was a blister from hot water.

Then again, I'm not a doctor.

My grandfather used to literally pour coffee out of the still bubbling perculator into a cup, and then drink it right away - damndest thing I ever saw. I honest to God don't think he actually had any tastebuds in his mouth (which might have explained how he tolerated my grandmother's cooking).



"Second, the offer to settle for medical expenses only was open until the jury came back after the trial. McDonald's offered zero."

They offered zero, perhaps, maybe because they actually weren't at fault? That it's a person's OWN responsibility not to dump hot coffee in their laps?

"Third at trial it was proved that injuries of this sort were occurring on an almost daily basis at McDonald's and they had absolutely no intention of doing anything about it."

Aren't there, like, 20,000 or 30,000 McDonalds in this country? Think that, by sheer numbers alone, you're going to have people spilling hot coffee on themselves? And of all of those people being burned so horribly, virtually no one tried to sue? Maybe it's because, unlike the plaintiff, they recognozed the hot coffee scalds...



"fourth, it was proved a trial that McDonald's intentionally, after brewing, kept their coffee at some 20 to 30° hotter temperature than any other restaurant."

So, no other resturant in America keeps their coffee at the same temperature that McDonalds had? None? I find that a little hard to believe.

Ok, so we're still at the same point I made before: coffee is made from boiling water (and the water in the heating tanks must be less then 212 degrees or else they won't be holding coffee very long). Everyone I know of realizes that boiling water will scald you if you touch it. And coffee, for about 400 years, has been made with boiling water.

I remember seeing this lady - she was definately a senior citizen. Back in the old days, the only way to make coffee was boiling water. That's what perculators were for, and most people her age drank LOTS of coffee. So, she's either the first senior citizen in history to have never drunk coffee that was made with boiling water, and doesn't realize that boing water will burn you, or she's just looking for a nice payoff for her own abject stupidity.



"fifth, the punitive damages awarded (which were overturned on appeal) were the equivalent of two days gross coffee sales at McDonald's. Not two day's gross sales, not two days gross breakfast sales, two days coffee sales."

That's irrelevent. The majority of that 2-days gross sales was the paycheck for a number of McDonalds corporate employees. So, in other words, the jury decided to take away the paychecks from several McDonalds employees to compensate a woman who doesn't get the idea that boiling coffee will burn you if you drop it into your lap.



"No I'm not an ambulance chaser, I am a general practitioner in the majority of my practice is bankruptcy law and domestic law. only about 20% of my firms practice is plaintiff's personal-injury and 99% of that is your simple garden-variety car wreck."

Get in touch with pacman357 - he's a lawyer too.



"I am truly sorry that in the wake of hurricane Katrina insurance companies, who are continuing to rake in profits at record levels as they have for last seven or eight years, have elected to double your insurance premiums, but are you really naïve enough to believe that the level of plaintiff verdicts, which over the last 10 years have not increased faster than the rate of inflation in general (government figures), are the cause for your insurance premium increases?"

Hey man, I'll be the first one to agree that insurance is basically a legalized shell-game. But there are people who time, and time again rip off insurance companies. To think that this has nothing to do with your insurance premiums, is outright absurd. People like to think that large companies rake in extreme profits, and in some instances this is true. But those profits don't get shoved under someone's mattress - it gets invested, distributed to share holders, invested in R & D, and so on. And when you start tapping corporations like a maple Tree for syrup, the end result is an immediate increase in prices.

Now, do I think insurance companies are completely blameless for unjustified rate increases? Absolutely not. But don't tell me that people claiming everything, the kitchen sink, and stuff they never owned as losted property on your insurance forms doesn't kick up rates.
pmn1
19 years ago
Hey Stap do you believe J Potts ? He actually told us he was not a doctor - Like no S--T.He can't comprehend how someone could get so badly burned from coffee - there fore it couldn't have been that bad.He can't comprehend that coffee doesn't have to be scalding hot to be prepared or that McD's ignored the safety to others . How about that punitive damages are irrelevant - clearly we have a burger flipper who didn't get his profit sharing ck that year - hey J try the deep frier at KFC they would love a guy who doesn't comprehend burns. Hey J do you drive a Pinto too.
fishinguitarman
19 years ago
^I've yet to read a post of yours where you're not attacking somebody.

....and I suspect I'll get the same?
pmn1
19 years ago
Why should I? I don't think you have contributed anything incredibly ignorant . Sorry if you do not approve of my approach but being ignorant & proud of it is a bad combination.
fishinguitarman
19 years ago
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, as we all are. But, I learned a long time ago that it's not worth getting my blood pressure up over things I can't control, such as what other people say. I CAN control myself, however, and how I approach people. But that's me.....
pmn1
19 years ago
Your right of course.But it seems that certain people only understand LOUD & CLEAR.
jetblasted
19 years ago
^ You're new here, right? ^
mraven13
19 years ago
If you ask a certain member here, he will tell you I am pmn1 haha. Talk about paranoia!

I kinda like it though...."You never know who the might really be Raven!!"

It cracks me up, so much stress over an internet cigar forum.
mraven13
19 years ago
And anyway, my comebacks are far wittier than pmn1's. No offense pm, just calling it like I see it 🙂

You have to work long and hard to piss people off the way I do lol.
jackconrad
19 years ago
All you have to do is be an indignant fool, with no respect for anyone but himself.
mraven13
19 years ago
YEP! ding ding ding...you win the prize Jack!
jetblasted
19 years ago
jack, you really amaze me sometimes . . .
mraven13
19 years ago
I really only do love myself 🙂 Ok and Yasmin gets some love too....
but as for everyone else? Screw em! LOL
Jack is a very perceptive guy....he amazes me too Jet 🙂
mraven13
19 years ago
Speaking of which, we're heading out for the night.
Nite everyone!

I'm sure some more of the good ol' boys will be along shortly to slam me 🙂 In the words of George W. "BRING IT ON!"
rockmeister
19 years ago
pnm1 needs to get laid.
fishinguitarman
19 years ago
I need to get laid more often.....(my wife says "yeah right" when I tell her that)
jpotts
19 years ago
pmn1:

"He actually told us he was not a doctor - Like no S--T.He can't comprehend how someone could get so badly burned from coffee..."

I've taken care of more wounds then I'll bet you have, chuckles. Then again, I'm sure you feel real confident about knowing everyting about me, don't you?

I must warn you, if your head goes any further up your rectum, you risk suffocation. Not that it matters anyway, considering that, in your case, your brain is not considered a critical organ...



"..there fore it couldn't have been that bad.He can't comprehend that coffee doesn't have to be scalding hot to be prepared or that McD's ignored the safety to others."

Yeah, you're a real genius. Next time, try steeping those beans in cold water and see how well they make coffee. Or maybe you're just all bent out of shape that I shattered the illusion for you that virtually all coffee is served at a temperature just above freezing.

Coffee has always been served a temperatures that can scald. And back in the old days, it used to be served at a point just below boiling.

By the way, would you like to discuss the variance that exists on most hot water / beverage heating elements?



"How about that punitive damages are irrelevant - clearly we have a burger flipper who didn't get his profit sharing ck that year - hey J try the deep frier at KFC they would love a guy who doesn't comprehend burns."

Oil has a much higer boiling point then does water. Not that this little piece of information matters much to someone as "intelligent"...






...sorry, had to stifle a laugh there...






...as you.



"Hey J do you drive a Pinto too."

No. I'd normally ask you what you drive, but your kind - the funny-looking people that have drool-catchers strategically placed just below their bottom lips - aren't issued licenses. I'm also pretty sure that most of your correspondences are in crayon considering your infamous "pencil" episode. Don't worry, though, most people can't tell the difference between a glass eye and the real thing nowadays.



You must be a ghost alias...no one can be this stupid and irritating all at the same time.
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