Lim,

Hey, I said nothing about children. That's already a problem without marriage. I don't think that would get any worse. I just don't care, but I don't want to see it. I also said they shouldn't be allowed to get married in a house of God.

I'm fully prepared for a "talkin' to" from Robby, something else I don't care about (no offense Robby). He can fight that battle all he wants. I could care less either way. Did I make myself clear? I don't care!!! I definitley care about homos adopting kids. That's what should be illegal, but it's not. Let's get our priorities straight.

Alcoholism...
When I first bought my house, about 8 years ago I put in a non-permitted studio (at least 1/2 the properties in Santa Cruz have 'em) and I had open trenches that could easily be seen from the street. I was stressed! I was doing much of the work myself on my off time. When I would go to work at the bar, I would want to be home finishing my project before I got busted..... So I drank.

One Saturday, I showed up for my morning shift and made myself my usual pair of Bloody Mary shooters. I had worked the night before and was, of course a little hung over. Then this 300# biker dude comes in and wants to go one on one Jagermeisters with me, (at the time I was about 180#. His freinds and the other customers were counting. We each polished off a liter (22 shots). His friends had to cary him out while I kept working.... and drinking. I had about 30 drinks in about 7 hours and was basically fine. I counted my dough, tipped the barback and rode my bike home. My tolerance was high but it wasn't many days more before I ended up in the hospital with a nervous breakdown.

The doctor told me to quit drinking... I did... for a month. It was the best advice I had ever gotten. I still drink, but nothing like that.

Cheers 😉

sketcha -

I think Binge is the wrong word. I should have said lush, and pretty much only when I'm parting with friends, I always have 2 too many which is about 2 less than in my 20's. The stupid things I drank back then. Never poured a drink when I'm stressed out, but definitely do to wind down. Haven't gotten wasted during a workweek since I worked in Restaurants and Bars. Cigars have definitely stretched out the pint refills. I never have a headache after a couple 4 packs of Guinness, but domestic beer is like poison for the brain.

Hey I'm with you on the alternative relationship thing. I'm a family guy and draw the line at changing basic family values. Would have one of those couples over any day and used to be friend with a bunch. They new where I stood and some agreed. It's like a women or man raising children on their own purposely. Just to have something their missing in their lives. My wife and I didn't have kids to fill a void. Ok really it was to have a few assistants on hand to fetch me beers. hehehe

What kind of bike do you have?

I've got a Honda V65 Magna that's for sale but I was referring to my bicycle. At the time I believe it was a Specialized Rock Hopper frame with all aftermarket super light parts. Beautiful mtn. bike. I let my little brother borrow it and he let it get stolen.

These days I usuall have a few stolis after 5:00 or late night after work. I generraly bounce around between that, bourbon and tequila with the occasional glass of wine. Tonight is band practice night. We booted our drugged up singer so we're not doing anything serious right now so it's no holds barred on the booze and gars. I usually get there an hour early so I can smoke the first one in peace. Can't wait.

So many typos. For shame.

I don't presume to dictate to people what their lifestyle should be. If they want to do what they want to do, fine. I'd rather it stay behind closed doors though. I don't want to come busting in to anyone's house and dictate what they should and shouldn't be allowed to do in the privacy of their home. To each his own. Just my opinion.

But historically, marriage is between a man and a woman... It would make for some interesting divorce cases though.

I mean, this could be carried to extremes... What about NAMBLA? They profess/share your belief, a "leave us be" attitude and anything goes? Sometimes some restraints are a good thing...

Sorry Robby, apples and oranges. We're talking about consenting adults here. I doubt there is anyone on this board who isn't sickened that the ACLU represents those bastards.

Of course marriage is a sacred institution that has been around since the dawn of recorded history, but the Govt. and insurance companies have given certain priveleges to married folks. I think gays just want those priveleges too. I don't know really. I don't understand it. Like I said before, I don't care!

Thanks for going easy on me.


Do you know the dirtiest words in (non-cable) TV history?







Ward, weren't you a little hard on the beaver last night?

Robby - If we use historical standards for everything, similar to the one you mentioned for hetro only marriages, we would have a lot of laws/standards that many today find quite distasteful, and currently illegal. By this rational we should still have slavery, and women shouldn't be able to vote or own land, along with similar outdated and thankfully changed "standards." Hell it was a historical practice for greeks to have young boy lovers, guess we'll have to re-institute this historical "standard" now since whatever worked in the past is good enough for us now.

Change is normally good, but there's always those who fear it and are unwilling to do so! Same sex marriage will be legal in the US in the future, it's just a question of when. But there will always be opponents who are too ignorant to give up their early teachings and thus reject the social shifts. I'm not gay, but I have no problem with anyone who is, and I think they should have the right to pay higher taxes for getting married just like hetro couples...

But I'm also an atheist not bound by religious or historical "standards" to decide for me what's right and wrong...

cwilhemi - atheist or agnostic? It's hard to believe you have no beliefs, like even for the Tobacco Gods...

atheist...

So what do you cry out when you're having sex? (with whoever you choose to have sex with)

Normally her name, or whatever else fits at the moment, but it doesn't really matter. As a society we commonly use names like Santa Claus and Easter Bunny all the while knowing that these characters don't exist. Simply using a name does nothing to validate the existence of the inferred. Otherwise imaginary friends wouldn't be imaginary...

Affirmative Action was originally a proactive movement by the US Government to get minorities to apply for government positions.

It has become a quota system, and while quotas may be illegal, the court has upheld on more than one occassion lawsuits to "prove" discrimination by the lack of minority advancement. Regardless of qualifications.
So, to protect their heinies, companies use quotas to give the appearance of equality.

Unfortunately, the mainstream media has changed the definition of Affirmative Action to become one of quotas. Jesse Jackson has risen to his power with such ideas. And joe public eat it up.

Affirmative Action (IMHO) is nothing more than a form of a free meal ticket for undeserving persons - the ones that earn it never seem to have a problem in getting it (promotions, raises, etc) and the only persons hurt by it these days are the non-minorities and/or the person(s) that actually deserved it and should have gotten it in the first place.

Personally, I'm sick & tired of seeing it happen within the workplace and everywhere else. When you actually think about it (realistically) wouldn't it kind of bother (a deserving individual) to be promoted, get a raise, etc. and (personally) know that the only reason they got it was based on race/sex?

Better yet - isn't it great how that if you speak Spanish these days, you stand a better chance of getting hired as a school teacher yet when you undergo surgery you're likely to have a doctor that doesn't speak English fluently.

When's the last time you saw a sign:

"Wednesday, Guy's Day" at a car wash giving a $3.00 discount?

"Thursdays - Guy's drink Free"

Anyone care to take a guess at what ISN'T Ladylike these days?

Affirmative Action accomplishes nothing more for the deserving persons (that get the promotions, etc) than place them in a DIM light with all the DIMWITS rather than giving them the SPOTLIGHT for which they deserve merit & recognition.

During the past 5 decades, the Caucasian American population has declined from 90% to 72%. If we follow the current trend, by 2050 A.D., Caucasians will be the minority race at 49% and by 2100 A.D., Caucasians are estimated to compromise only 25% of the American population.

- at what point would there be justification for the NAACP to be classified as a racist organization?

Why isn't it considered a hate crime when a Black/Hispanic (etc) male rapes a Caucasian woman?

- or when a Caucasian male is mugged on the street at gunpoint?

Is it that we'd be considered Politically Incorrect if we called it as we see it for what it's worth?

If we lived in a nation that was free of racism, discrimination, and bigotry, I'd be all for the abolition of affirmative action. But the fact of the matter is we live in a nation that still hires/fires/raises salaries and positions/admits/declines/allows/dismisses/promotes/demotes based on the color of a (wo)man's skin or the ring of their last name. I'm not saying it ALWAYS happens or is the ONLY case, but by God, I have witnessed it time and time again. It is a sad truth that racism is institutionalized in this country. If you think we all are given equal opportunity, you are living in a dream world. Does this mean some don't have a chance? Heck no... but if your skin is with pigment or your last name sounds of "over there", you have additional obstacles to overcome to achieve "success". As long as those obstacles exist, I am in favor of affirmative action.

Jefferson -

... you've clearly indicated that you are against discrimination in any form -

- yet you close with a supporting statement for Affirmative Action which is a defined form of discrimination.

Hmmm.... I wonder how popular Affirmative Action would be if the NBA and everybody else had to follow the same guidelines?

You think Tyson won all of those fights because he was Black?

Maybe that's what makes Tiger so good on the green huh?

Colin L. Powell became Secretary of State in January 2001.

... each of the above got what they deserved based on qualifications and if C. Powell had run for President - I'd wait in line next to RICKAMAVEN overnight on the sidewalk to vote for C. Powell without giving it a second thought. I was sincerely disappointed to hear he decided not to run - and personally (IMHO) I feel that Affirmative Action is/was his personal reason for NOT running for Office - too many politics involved for him to be happy with winning the election - and I seriously think he could have won. But rather than deal with the stress, accusations, racism issues, he'd rather forego it entirely.

America is too lawsuit happy for racism to occur outright, unless of course it favors the minority population, and then the Supreme Court wants to turn a blind-eye on the issue.

What better way is there to rebuild the USA to the Country she once was (economically, stucturally, morally) than to give away the very jobs and responsibilities (political & non-political) that we need to accomplish this to those that deserve it the least?

When do I get MY own television channel?

Why not a National College Fund specifically designated for MY children?

As long as there are some that want something for absolutely nothing .... nothing shall come to those that deserve it.

Jefferson,
You are correct. Racism does exist.
But affirmative action has not only failed to solve the problem, it has made it worse.

There currently exist laws that forbid discrimination in hiring practices. These laws have been somewhat successful and should continue to be enforced.

Affirmative Action has done for the minorities what welfare has done for the poor: perpetuated the problem.

Also, lest we forget, that "racism" pendulum which is actually bigotry 90+% of the time swings both ways. However, the only time it's ever really referenced or publicized, it's White against (insert your favorite downtrodden minority here). When Reginald Denney was pummeled mercilessly by a mob of young black men, did people cry "racism" from the tops of every building? I didn’t hear it… And it was undeniably open hatred against the man for no other reason than his skin color. He was dragged from the cab of his truck (innocent) and beaten to within an inch of his life. We all watched it on TV…

The one “troubled young man” picked up a fire extinguisher as I recall and hurled it at Mr. Denny’s head with all of his might… A clear picture of a racist. But I don’t recall hearing him referred to in that light. Is he alone in his hatred of whites? No, far from it. The din of the media, and the apologists who make excuse after excuse about soooociety and how we all bear some responsibility for this young man’s hatred, BS!

This reinforces my previous points that if we dealt with people as individuals as opposed to their group affiliation, we would all be much better off. There will always be those who hate anyone who doesn’t fit their image of what they feel decent people should be. Typically this translates in to, if you’re not like me, you’re not worth dirt. Hate is color blind and comes in all colors, nationalities, shapes and sizes. It ranges from age, to size, to nationality, to hue. It’s all deplorable and trying to fix it with government mandated quotas, serves to fan the flames of self righteous justification for doing to others what people believe has been visited on their group. And it will never be enough, there will always be another hill to climb, another wrong to right, another entitlement owed. It’s wrong and needs to stop.

Just finished watching Antwon Fisher. Hmmmmmmmm... Sure made me think. Ya and maybe thinking is good...

Thanks for the thoughts guys, I appreciate your views. I, however, remain unswayed in my conviction that we need to correct, even seemingly "over correct" via affirmative action for the years of openly practiced racism and bigotry to which our country lays claim. My opinion is based upon my personal experiences and what I percieve to be the reality of the current state of our culture. I work hard and have achieved a bit more than modest success. I have no axe to grind. I have heard, first hand, on multiple occasions over the last 15 years during my career sometimes subtle and sometimes not so subtle remarks that are blatantly racist and bigoted, more so by white men in power than any other group. This is not to say I have never heard a woman or a minority commit the same offense. I have worked, btw, at a major wirehouse Wall St investment firm. When I could, I voiced my opposition to the remark or the behavior. There have been times, frankly, when I could not raise protest for fear of my own position.
I observe a lot of subtle racism that exists in our country, the remnants of years and years of overtly practiced racism, and believe it is naive to think that today we can say "ok, we have a level playing field here- everyone has an equal chance at the American Dream- get out there and pull yourself up by the bootstraps and don't use silly excuses like racism for your lack of success". Maybe some day, but not today.
One of the posts mentioned "returning the country to the glory days" or something to the effect. I'm not sure what that means. When everyone had an equal chance? Tell me when that's been in this country. Was that when we were practicing genocide as a young country as well as maintaining a slave-state to fuel our economic growth? Was that back when we were all created equal but only some could vote or be outside after dark?
Don't get me wrong. I love this country and would gladly defend her. I'm not bashing here. I accept the good ol' USA with all it's great attributes and grand history and ideals (I'm currently reading John Adams- a great historical biography that is renewing my sense of what this country was originally meant to be)but at the same time I don't shy away from the atrocities that are a part of our history as well. To ignore those atrocities, and the resulting sickness they continue to levy upon our nation, in my opinion, does nothing to make us stronger as a nation. It is my wish that every single person in this nation has an equal opportunity to enjoy the freedoms our constitution promises. For now, I believe affirmative action is moving us in that direction.

"moving us in that direction." and who decides when we get there? Those on the dole? Hey, I've been giving you an unfair advantage for 40 years, do you think it's time we stop? NO! No justice no peace! No woman no crime? Who decides? How far have we moved? How far is needed to move? How do we measure? What if we move too far? i.e., an over correction? Will we institute quotas and preferences for groups now considered in the majority? You see, it's subjective, and therefore by it's nature unfair. It's "your opinion" that "something" needs to be done, for "some period of time". Hey, thanks for taking such a firm stand with your convictions 😉 A lot a guts...

This is typically the difference between conservatives and liberals. Liberals like to do things that make them “feel good”. Conservatives apply the rule of logic to the situation, i.e., where are we, where are we trying to get, what steps are required, how will it be measured, what are the success criteria, what is plan B, etc, etc, etc…

To simply say, “well I’ve seen it and it’s ugly” is pure emotional dribble. To say that is to imply that in 100, or 1000, or 10000 years if we continue with “affirmative action”, there will be no more of the ugliness, which you have personally witnessed. Well that’s BS. In 10,000 years should my children’s (to the power of 20) still be paying for something done in the 19th century? That’s ludicrous. Of course it is, but when I ask the question how long? You don’t have a good answer, do you? No, you don’t, because no good answer exists. And if you can’t answer that question, why isn’t the answer “it’s been long enough already?”