chitownblackjack
23 years ago
Otherwise known as "affirmative action" by a split 5-4 decision today in the University of Michigan law school case.

Slavery only ended 130 or so years ago; how many years and generations will it take before the US has to stop using a reverse discrimination quota system to correct those wrongs?

Charlie
23 years ago
The talk shows will be heated up over this one!

Charlie
Lowman
23 years ago
limoric
23 years ago
How long did slavery exist? I think that's a good time frame.
choner
23 years ago
THL, those two links you posted are funny! Some people have the nerve to take advantage of the generosity of the brothers in Cbid.

I hope this isn't jacking a thread, just commenting on THL's post.

choner
Robby
23 years ago
Limoric, I believe slavery still exists in some parts of the world, we were smart enough to abolish it and have worked hard to do so "world wide" and continue to give HUGE amounts of our tax dollars in International aid to the underprivileged around the world. How much does Canada give, eh?

I think this is a dark day for Dr. King, he felt that a man should be judged on the content of his character... Yet we live in a society where groups of people are virtually fixated on quotas, flag issues, and seemingly ignore the astronomical illegitimacy and illiteracy rates in minority communities. I believe Dr. King would be rolling in his grave…
THL
  • THL
  • Herf-A-Holic
23 years ago
Choner, look at the username of the originator of this thread and compare it to the originator of the thread I've indicated.
jgjam
23 years ago
I've got agree with Robby on this one. Two wrongs don't make a right.

John
limoric
23 years ago
Our government just pledged 1 Billion to Africa, it may not be a lot, but it's a higher percentage of our GDP tham most other countries. Also the underground railroad ended at only one point.

Yes slavery does still exist, and it isn't America's fault that a few Idiot's thought it Ok. I do agree that Affirmitave action isn't perfect, but can you come up with a better solution to correct the dissadvantages that were put on minorities from the racism of the past.

Maybe the point system should be based on the neighborhood you come from. I know I had zero distractions preventing me from concentrating on school.
Robby
23 years ago
My son is 3 months old. He's never owned any slaves. Why should he be discriminated against?

“but can you come up with a better solution to correct the disadvantages that were put on minorities from the racism of the past.”

Why yes, yes I can. It’s called equal opportunity. There are universities where people get 3 points for an excellent essay and 20 points for being a minority. There are other areas where you have to be “the right kind of minority” because too many Asians were gaining admission and their scores are too high.

What if you’re Canadian and you emigrate to the USA and you’re discriminated against because you’re white? How does that make sense? What about people of color who’ve emigrated here from other parts of the world who were not ancestors of American slaves? They benefit too? And why? Solely because of their skin color? How is that “fair”?

I think I’ve heard it said, “two wrongs don’t make it right, but it damn sure makes it even”. That’s what were talking about here isn’t it? Revenge in some strange way?? I work with some minority folks who are some of the smartest sharpest people I’ve ever met! It is an insult to their intellect, drive, and integrity to insinuate that they need “special treatment”.

Statistically, in 40 years, whites will be a minority in the USA. What happens in 40 years when “whites are a minority in the USA”? Will they, should they get “special treatment”? Because they’re a minority?

Wrong is wrong, and right is right, and “discrimination is wrong” period.
sketcha
23 years ago
There were 2 parts to todays news I believe. The point system for undergrads was voted down 6-3.

One point I would like to remind people of is the question of who sold the U.S. its slaves...

Africans! Yes Africans. Rival African tribes would conquer one another, take prisoners and sell their "brothers" into slavery.

Robby's right. I haven't profited from slavery and don't feel it fair for I or my family to pay for it. Affirmative action does nothing to heal the wounds between the races and only increases the bitterness.

Today's ruling is a moderate one. It says that a university can take measures to diversify itself without regard to scientific (quota) means.
limoric
23 years ago
Robby,

I totally agree with you on that everyone's taking advantage of the system. I'm not saying get even

There are problems that exist as a result of the past, to no fault of African Americans (not other groups). They need to be fixed. Don't you think it's going to take time and a little more effort on the part of leaders. It's like your equal now so don't worry about the bullets your dodging, just concentrate on school.

I know it's not like that everywhere!!!

Now I'm not saying minorities aren't responsible for there own problems, but lets not forget what caused some of them.

I agree the system isn't fair and if your second generation German, (white) your discriminated against by Affirmative action.

What do we do. Ignore the past and present problems and just call it servival of the fitest.

I'm totally on your side, but should no system exist?

limoric
23 years ago
sketcha - that's like blaming the drug dealer and not the buyer or it's the Hookers fault and not the John.

I agree Affirmative action is not fair. As a matter of fact I'm discriminated against in my country in the same way. If your a minority, you skip the list for the police force jobs. They figure if it's a Native keeping the peace the Native criminals won't commit the crimes.

Should some sort of system exist to help those who live in the projects created for them?
Robby
23 years ago
It’s interesting. A very interesting and thought provoking discussing. Yes there were wrongs, terrible wrongs. Also, indeed it hasn’t really been that long. Hell, in my lifetime, (born in 58) there have been horrible injustices. The civil rights act was enacted by Kennedy in 64? That’s not that long. And there has been much progress. However, it is also proven for instance that by throwing money at problems like welfare, you don’t fix things. I.e., how many billions and billions has the US spent on welfare in the last 40 years? We still have roughly the same levels of poverty and destitution. I believe if you doubled it, or tripled it, you’d have a lot of happy lazy folks, but you wouldn’t fix the core/underlying problems, which are endemic in under achieving areas.

We have inner city schools where children who try to succeed are labeled as “white acting” and shunned by their peers for trying to do well in school. This is horiable! I’m not saying that this is by any means a sweeping generalization or that it’s even the majority. I don’t know the percentages, but I do know from watching TV and seeing documentaries, testimonials, that it does happen. So how does giving someone something help them when what they need is a checkup from the neck-up? Anyone with the attitude I just referenced will never succeed regardless of the breaks they are given. And those with the drive and fortitude to succeed don’t need it.

I’m sure this will be perceived as racist or bigoted by some, but how can it be un-fair to treat everyone fairly? At what point is the field level? And what will become of the white minority in 40 years? Again, will they have special treatment? Should they?

Let’s look at a few other examples. The Germans decimated the Jews. What are the modern day Germans doing to repay the sins of their fathers? What should they do? What should their grandchildren do? Their great grandchildren? Their great great grandchildren? At what point is it finished?

Here’s another which I have always personally loved and I’ve never heard anyone else make the point, it came to me while listening to the mad man Kalid Muhammad, who was Louis Ferrican’s right hand man. He went on and on about his hatred of the white man, the Jew, and various other groups. He harkened back to the days of ancient Egypt saying that blacks historically were far superior to whites because they ruled ancient Egypt, built the pyramids, the sphinx, etc… What he failed to acknowledge is that history states that the Jews were slaves at the time. They were lead out of Egypt by Moses. So using the same logic, in reality, the blacks owe the Jews as a result of centuries of slavery, right? When will they make restitution? Should they???

My ancestors are Irish, they were persecuted by the British. The British starved Ireland during the great potato famine, this is in fact when my great grandfather came over on a boat from Ireland to escape persecution and seek his family’s future which he built with his hands. He was given the opportunity to succeed and did so. Do the British owe me restitution? Should I be able to go to England and expect special treatment because my ancestors were persecuted and starved to death by their ancestors? It just doesn’t make sense. At some point we need to acknowledge the wrongs committed in the past, correct them by ensuring the right to the pursuit of happiness. However, at some point, it is incumbent on the individual to pursue happiness. That means working for it.

The only way we will survive is to stop viewing people as members of groups and view them as individuals.
cooksta2
23 years ago
I think the decision is a shame. Putting one race in front of the selection solely based on complexion is an unbelievable. Race shouldn't even be allowed on the application for acceptance. I remember when I applied for a college loan and a grant I was told that if I belonged to a different race it would be no problem. What is that called? It is called discrimination against a white guy that never had or knew any slaves. A guy who's parents were picking fish out of a net in Europe long after the end of slavery before we arrived in the US yet my attempts to go to college were denied so someone of a different race could have an all expense paid education. I am proud to say that I did finally attend school on my own but how much does one expect me to support with my own tax dollars when they will not afford me the privelege of an assisted education. Hopefully they'll get it right but for now it will continue to harvest ill feelings toward the entire subject.
Robby
23 years ago
limoric
23 years ago
Robby, You could not have said it better. Only it was the German Fascists, which became part of east Germany and remained in the dark ages until today.

I'm 1/2 Irish 1/2 French (lover and a fighter, ohh boy).
Maegher 1875 and Conway early 1830's. My mother is a Geneologist, I bet she could prove were related. I have 5th cousins In Boston, New Jersey and Wisconsin, partied with 400 of them in a the small Irish town of Shannon, north of Quebec City, last summer.

Anyway, I'm for taking all excuses away, what ever that takes.
limoric
23 years ago
Robby,

hey the split between Germany sort of has a parallel to the American Revollution.
Robby
23 years ago
As I said, it's a contentious issue, and while some will agree, some never will. I think we're very close. It's a long speech, I'm posting the last paragraph. I agree with the sentiments and hope they will be realized in my lifetime.

"When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"

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