good article.

I have 15...

Great Artical THL!!!

Even in the Nations Capitol When they took the Guns away from Law Abiding Citizens the Crime Rate and Murder Rate went through the Roof... You Would think that would have told them Something DUH!!!!!!

Hog

This guy's book is great! He started out as a gun control advocate. While compiling data for his book he saw that the facts were not supporting his theories and in fact pointed in the complete opposite direction.

One point that he makes is that if guns, or the ready availability of guns were factors in the rate of gun-related crime, it would follow that areas with a high rate of gun ownership would have a high rate of gun crime. It's not so. Urban areas have a relatively low rate of gun ownership when compared to rural areas where the ownership rate is usually over 80%. Where is the gun crime? For the most part, in urban areas. Washington, D.C. and N.Y.C. have the strictest gun laws in the country and are among worst areas for gun crime.

They should out law cars. That old fart in California killed 8, serously wounded dozens. Cars Kill!

They should out law baseball bats. You can kill with one of them.

They should out law spoons. They made Rosie O'Donnell fat. She is now 2.7 times more likely to die of a heart attack.

They should out lay hyperdermic needles. You could step on one at the beach and die of aids.

Gimme a Frikken break. Guns are a very good thing to have.

Actually they have a new program in place called PEP, not sure what it stands for but if you get treated by the medication from PEP within 72 hours of getting stuck with a needle or other things you have a great chance of not getting AIDS. Just saw this on tv today and looked pretty amazing. The one guy they interviewed pretty much stated that he hopes no one ever has to take the medication, apperantly it messes you up really good. but they have been testing it with hospitals for nurses and doctors who get stuck with needles but is available to all others that might get it other ways. just my 2 cents. I own a gun. I havent killed anyone yet. Hope to god I never have to either. But I will to proctect me and my family.

Excellent article. "If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns" Just like my American Express card I never leave home without one of my guns. I hope that I never have to use them but if I do I want to be sure that I have it with me ...Just my 2 cents

That's it; I'm never crossing the 49th Parallel again. You guys are freaking me out.

Robby, I'm really not surprised.

Gun control doesn't work because it really doesn't exist.
More murders are caused with stolen guns, stolen by responsible adults.

The European stats don't distinguish between handguns or riffles.

Concealed handguns kill, pepper spray does not.

Why don't we just carry bombs around with us or Chemical weapons or brass knuckles.

I once stepped into a street fight 8 years ago where one guy was jumping on a guy’s head, there was a pool of blood. There were also 3 other fights happening at the same time and a crowd of people watching. I still have a scar on my forehead to prove it. I was the only one that jumped in and did not care about the consequences, although I figured others would follow, nop. The doctor and police told me that, had I not stepped in the young man would have died. Had there been a Gun or knife visible, I would have not stepped in, that guy would be died and I would remember that for the rest of my life.

I don't believe in condoling a persons right to own a gun, however carrying a gun is a different story. Why not carry acid or killer bees or a killer dog.

My wife carries a deafening alarm. If she carried a gun it would be taken from her.

Weapons are for the military.

A hunting riffle is for hunting

Handgun's are for concealing.

Bring it on!!!

Sigh, "DEEP Sigh..."

Lim, Lim, Lim...

How many guns exist in the US and elsewhere? Are you implying that if they were outlawed, they would magically disappear? The last time I checked, drugs are illegal here, but I'd be willing to bet paychecks, I could by virtually ANY illegal drug within walking distance...

So it may sound trite, but outlawing gun ownership ensures that only outlaws will have them! Do you think the hoods who are going to do unto me and mine are going to tuck tail, and walk submissively into their local precinct, head down, arms extended, guns in hand?

We're not Europe and I'm glad! Concealed handguns kill, yes. There are laws against them...

A gun will stop an intruder. I've seen them spray police with pepper spray directly in the face during their training so they can see the effect. I did not see them fall on the ground writhing in pain...

I don't have any bombs or chemical weapons, I have no desire to own them. But I'm not aware of that "right" in our bill of "rights"...

What about people who's lives are saved by ligitimate gun ownership? What about people who do "nut up" and start killing people in malls, etc... If there were an armed civilian there, do you think they might be able to prevent it?


"however carrying a gun is a different story. Why not carry acid or killer bees or a killer dog." You must not be familiar with our constitution. I'll direct you to the second amendment. It says nothing about bees or dogs, either of which would be fairly useless in the face of a firearm...

If you don't want a gun, or your wife doesn't want a gun, don't buy one! Don't keep one!! But here in the states, it is our right to keep and bear...

"Weapons are for the military." Yes, yes they are. But, The second amendment protects us from our government as well as wrong doers... That's one of the main reasons it was put there.

"A hunting riffle is for hunting" And blue is for boys and pink is for girls, what's your point?!! That whole handguns aren't for hunting argument is CRAP! The second amendment to our constitution says NOTHING about hunting! This point is simply off message and specious. It's a smoke screen. My guns are not intended for hunting. I don't hunt. My guns are purely for my enjoyment, collecting, target practice, and yes, to blow a hole big enough to walk through in to someone if the unlikely event arrises...

Robby

I just knew it was a matter of time before you chimed in.

Where did I say we should ban guns in general? I do like the examples you use to justify concealed guns. Oh and the fact that the constitution allows for concealed guns makes them that much less lethal than other weapons. Other countries have the same rate of ownership than the US, yet their murder rate is much less. Hmmmm, they’re not allowed to conceal them. Sorry, you can't argue with statistics. The only argument you can make is that the US is a bad place and I don't believe that. Freedom comes with some sort of limit.

The argument that if concealed guns were banned, people would do it anyway is bull. They don't conceal here and that is because it is the law. I would be enlightened to see an argument for my last statement that proves me wrong without just saying, "oh if we make that law, people will just do it anyway. Oh, and if you try to make the argument that the US is bigger. Stats are per capita.

If you tell me the rate of murder wouldn't decrease with less concealed guns, bull. It's a lot harder to go at somebody with something less lethal.

Oh guns are a problem and people won't turn them in, so let's just give everyone a gun so they can defend themselves. A lot of people own guns because they feel they need to protect themselves. That is irrational thinking and those who think irrationally do irrational things.

Now your going to say how do we defend ourselves. I live in a city of 1 Million, we have the occasional drive-by. I'm not running to the gun shop to protect myself.

If you own a gun for the sport, well than you don't own for an irrational reason, your better trained and it's probably looked up when not in use. Different story.

Robby you carry your guns around with you?

"I just knew it was a matter of time before you chimed in. "

Lim, it's an open forum? And I'm a gun "collector" of course I'm going to chime in!

Hello, is this thing on? Limoric!! You cannot carry concealed handguns LEGALLY in the US without a permit!! And people with permits aren't pulling them out willy nilly and blowing people away. To get a concealed carry permit, you have to register with the police, go through a background check, be finger printed, etc... And even then it comes with stipulations, i.e., you're not legally allowed to carry in to a bar even with a permit, or many other places.

"Other countries have the same rate of ownership than the US, yet their murder rate is much less. Hmmmm,"

Can you say, different legal system? If we prosecuted and locked people up, and gave them real sentences instead of the revolving door justice system in this country, we too would see the crime rate drop.

I'm curious what countries you're referring to? I could for instance say, other countries have cars, but we have more automobile accidents. There's no logical dotted line there to follow. 10s of thousands or perhaps hundreds of thousands of people are killed in automobile crashes each year in this country. More so than any other country, even though other countries have cars?

"They don't conceal here and that is because it is the law." It's the law here too, what makes you think otherwise?

"The argument that if concealed guns were banned, people would do it anyway is bull." You need to watch the news in Atlanta for a month... Lots of people conceling, robbing, etc...


"I'm not running to the gun shop to protect myself." fine, good, don't worry, be happy. But for me and mine, ahhh let's just say you'd better knock... If people don't want to buy, own, or shoot guns, that's just fine with me. If people don't want to buy, own, or smoke cigars, that's just fine with me. But why should they restrict me?

"Robby you carry your guns around with you?"

I do not. I don't trust myself... To easy to get pissed off and use it. But, people are allow to carry them in their car. It's considered an extension of your home. And if someone wants to have one in their car, or concealed with a carry permit, I have no qualms about that.

You’re evidently laboring under the misconception that anyone can carry concealed here in the states, and that’s simply not the case. The only way you can do that is with a permit. And I would be VERY interested in seeing the statistics about how many people with legal carry permits, police background checks, finger printed, etc… Shoot people in acts of violent aggression as compared to in self-defense…

"Weapons are for the military.

A hunting riffle is for hunting

Handgun's are for concealing. "

This is what got me riled. Handgun's are also for home defense, or in your car. They're easy to wield, easy to point, aim, and use. Much easier than a long gun. And much more effective for just that reason.

It seemed from your post that your were opposed to "handguns", not necessarily concealed handguns...

So my questions;

1. Did you know that you have to be licensed to carry here? And it's tightly controlled?

2. Were you saying that you were opposed to "handguns"? Legally carried handguns? Or only illegally carried handguns?

If it's the later, then it's a no brainer. Virtually everyone is opposed to illegally concealed handguns.

Robby,

"I do not. I don't trust myself... To easy to get pissed off and use it. But, people are allowed to carry them in their car. It's considered an extension of your home. And if someone wants to have one in their car, or concealed with a carry permit, I have no qualms about that."

Thanks for making my point.

Cars being an extension of your home is what I was talking about. I know you need a permit to have one in your purse. Don't tell me people responsibly take their guns off their bodies before entering public places.

And I hate comparing other places to the US. I'm talking about laws.

People who have permits freak out too. I know it's a small percentage of murders.

Their are too many legally owned guns sitting in peoples dressers and cars just waiting to be stolen.

Other countries don't allow permits and permits are required to carry in a car (not an extension of home) and the riffles hanging in the back of trucks here, must have the shells looked in a glove compartment. If loaded they are up sh#$ creek.

You know you haven’t really argued against my real points. One person chimed in and said I never leave my gun at home. What the hell is he doing, just waiting for an incident to arise. Holy Cowboy.

Did I say you shouldn't own a gun, shoot a gun or blow an intruders head off, no. I don't own a handgun because I don't want to be in that position. I would rather be killed than live with the thought of killing even the worst criminal. Owning a gun that is loaded, not looked up or in my car, just ups the probability.

I'm very against people owning handguns just to protect themselves, that's crazy and caring one on your body even with a permit is nut's, unless your law enforcement.

There are just too many people that would disagree with my last comment and that's my point.

I'm just glad I don't have the option of obtaining a permit. If I could, I might just rationalize a reason.

When I was younger and stupid I chased someone with a baseball bat as a result of road rage. Would you have wanted me to have a gun in the glove compartment of my car?

Hey we have a National gun registry I totally don't agree with, because it's useless. Don't think I'm against Guns, Just against laxed laws.

I agree with your justice system example. If you are caught with an Illegal gun you should go to jail for a minimum of 10 years no parole. Oh, I just made a mistake. Tough you’re an example so that others think twice. I wonder how many of these confiscated guns are destroyed? That ought to reduce the #'s

"I'm very against people owning handguns just to protect themselves, that's crazy and caring one on your body even with a permit is nut's, unless your law enforcement."

Bingo! There you go, you are against it, as I said earlier, it took a bit to coax it out, but there it is. Sorry, Lim, it's right there in our constitution, the right to keep and bear. And it doesn't say, the right to keep and bear "for hunting". It’s all about blowing people away Limoric, sorry if that offends you. It's our history, it's our freedom, and it's our right.

If I “choose” to pack in the truck, that's my right too. I "choose" not to. That's my choice, not yours or anyone else’s.

I could just as easily "choose" to carry with a permit, or in the car. But I'll tell you this, my .45 is in the nightstand by the bed... And I can put 8 rounds in an 8 inch circle at 50 feet every time.

And if God forbid, I need to use it, it's much easier for me to maneuver and use for its intended purpose than "a hunting rifle". I would hunt with a hunting rifle if I were a hunter. I'm not, so if I "choose" to defend myself with a handgun, why should that bother anyone?

"I do not. I don't trust myself... To easy to get pissed off and use it. But, people are allowed to carry them in their car. It's considered an extension of your home. And if someone wants to have one in their car, or concealed with a carry permit, I have no qualms about that.

Thanks for making my point. "

I could apply the same logic and say, it's too easy for people to drink and then be tempted to drive home, therefore, outlaw all alcohol because some people drive drunk.

I could apply the same logic and say, it's too easy for parents to abuse their children and some do, therefore government social workers should pay weekly visits to every home with children and ensure their well being.

You can carry this to all sorts of idiotic extremes. It's just a silly to say, some people won't have the control to own a handgun responsibly, so therefore, all people should have that "RIGHT" removed... It's ludicrous...

My choice is my own. Not yours or anyone elses.

Robby,

"You can carry this to all sorts of idiotic extremes. It's just a silly to say, some people won't have the control to own a handgun responsibly, so therefore, all people should have that "RIGHT" removed... It's ludicrous..."

Did I say that?

And if God forbid, I need to use it, it's much easier for me to maneuver and use for its intended purpose than "a hunting rifle". I would hunt with a hunting rifle if I were a hunter. I'm not, so if I "choose" to defend myself with a handgun, why should that bother anyone?

Why do you have to protect yourself?

You don't have defend your rights, quit doing that. You have to agree that there should be a way to keep the gun's away from the people that aren't as responsible as you.

By the way security guards are not allowed to carry guns here. just one example of a different law.

By the way my comment about you chiming in was in fun. I knew you would and you do make me think just a bit.

Sorry, Lim, it's right there in our constitution, the right to keep and bear. Ya we changed our Constitution.

"From my cold dead hands" 🙂

In the 1800's out West, guns were called equalizers, and with good reason. Without them you, your loved ones, your property would be subject to the whims of whomever could muster more physical force than you.
The same is true today. How could my 80 year old grandmother defend herself against a 20 year old, 200 lb. attacker? The firearm is obviously a practical choice for many. Most folks don't realize it but our modern, urban crime rates are far worse than were ever experienced in our "Wild West." Your chances of being attacked in Detroit today far outstrip your chances of being attacked in Dodge City during it's heyday!
Lim you asked Robby:"Why do you have to protect yourself?" Just read the paper, watch the news, or better yet take a walk through Baltimore by yourself some evening. Maybe you don't value your own life enough to defend it, but what about your wife and children who look to you for security?
The police? They show up after the fact. If they were effective there would be no crime now. The fact is there are predators out there. Don't let your family be their prey.
I challenge "gun grabbers" to put signs on their houses and lawns: "No guns in this house! We don't believe in them!"
You can't put the genie back in the bottle and uninvent guns. If you could rid the planet of them today, by nightfall enterprising machinists would be making them in their basements. They just outlawed almost all guns in England and now they are in the midst of a home invasion crimewave. The criminals know there is little chance of EFFECTIVE opposition.