Ah ... well, now we're talking another horse entirely, not just one of a different color ... from the governmental side, I don't think an effort should be made to "control" consumption ... I'd agree that an increased supply should be encouraged and facilitated ...

But, there's no leadership whatsoever at the state level here ... the government of the State of California is in a hell of a mess ... small wonder the citizenry is angry with the governor and has resorted to a poorly conceived 93 year old, never-before-used, populist mechanism to recall him ... too bad that the do-nothing legislature isn't about to disappear along with him ... we'd literally be better off here if the whole damn bunch of them were to be put on a cruise ship, taken on a voyage to the middle of the Pacific Ocean, then left there at anchor ... NO government would be greatly preferable to the ineptitude we've had running the show here for the last 25 years ...

dz130 writes:
"A while back here in the Cleveland area, a minority mayor accused the oil companies of racism because prices in certain areas (da hood) were higher than others. As for profittering, the stations around here have jumped prices by .15-.20 in a matter of hours ... "

Again, it's NOT the stations themselves who're responsible ... as much as (or maybe even more than) the public, they're victims of the big oil companies.
And you're right that prices are higher in 'the hood' ... so are groceries and other stuff ... in this case, at least, the oil companies charge what they THINK the traffic will bear in a given area and they monitor sales VERY closely ... they constantly tweak prices up and down to maximize their profits ...

So if a station receives a gas shipment every Tuesday then by all rights they should not raise/lower prices prior to another shipment. That is not the case. I see prices go up and down daily whether the individual station receives gas at a new price or not. How can you say the individual station is not at fault? What am I missing?

how do you know if/when they receive a new shipment at a new price ??

Stations seldom if ever receive a shipment 'every Tuesday' ... in the computer era, many are auto-programmed to receive an order when the level in THEIR underground tanks reaches a pre-determined level ... if they're not that tech-enabled, they're manually ordering when that level is reached ...

And it's not at all uncommon for prices to vary from one shipment to the next, often with NO notice whatever from the oil company that the price has been changed ... quite often, the station learns of the new price as their gas is already in the ground ...

Count your blessings that you're not in that business ... if he's affiliated with a major oil company, a station owner has pathetically little to say about how his station is run ... almost every detail from prices to operating hours are dictated by the big oil company

Why is anyone at "fault"??? If you don't like the price, don't pay it! If you owned a widget company and everyone was buying them from the store down the street for $5 bucks and from the store a block over for $6 bucks, and people came to you ready to spend that much at your store - would you sell them for $3 bucks just because you felt bad for them? No! You would charge as much as people would pay! And once you raised your price high enough, you would see a decrease in people buying them and then you would stop raising the price until you found that equilibrium of price and volume of sales. If you don't like the price that someone is charging, you can either work in the industry to create more supply (and this is accomplished in a NUMBER of ways), or learn to live without the product. That's the beauty of a capitalistic economy!

Where is it written in stone that a sales price is determined by that products cost..over the longer run pricing should be what the market will bear ..that may be higher or lower than the cost to the distributor...look at the commidity boards which is where the cost of crude is set it changes minute by minute...to beat a dead horse..to get the price down...assumming we are not willing to cut consumption...is to increase production..especially domestic production and that means drilling ...with reasonable controls where the reserves are...yes that means off-shore including the west coast,Alaskan reserves until we build more power plants where they are need based on consumption,and can develop alternative fuels and are willing to pay for their development....

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"If you don't like the price, don't pay it! ... If you don't like the price that someone is charging, you can either work in the industry to create more supply or learn to live without the product. That's the beauty of a capitalistic economy!"
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Realistically, do you really think that or anything like it has a REMOTE chance of happening in the oil industry??? With the exception of a handfull of do-gooders, NO one is going to learn to live without the product ... similarly, NO one or NO group of individuals is going to be able to do ANYthing that will have ANY positive impact on the supply side, let alone an impact of sufficient magnitude to make a discernable difference.

Except in textbook theory, the oil biz just ain't the widget biz ... big oil developed and tested that premise back in '73 ... they messed with us until they found out it was true for consumers, then did it again a few years later to be sure it held true for big biz, including the trucking industry ... that was when they really learned that they had us by the balls and that not only would our hearts and minds follow, but that so would our wallets ... and all too willingly, if they just didn't mess with the supply of our precious gas any more ... in the 25 years that've followed, they've played us like a fine violin ... not a quarter or a fiscal year ends without an announcement from big oil that they've achieved record profits once again ... and again .... and again ...

You guys took my simple point and ran away.

I understand supply and demand and even know what fungible means.

No one is happy with the high gas prices. I do not like to pay $45 for a fill-up. I just disagree with Steve. I live in a small town surrounded by small towns. Our stations get regular shipments. So I do believe the station owners rasie their prices without incurring additional expense. That is my only point here. They get a nice additional profit that way. I am not saying in anyway that the price I pay must be connected to the price they pay. You just can't lay all the blame on the 'big' oil company for my local prices. I am just glad I do not live in CA.

Hey Phenix,
Sorry but I think we would be better served in reducing consumption rather than increasing production. Sell that SUV, and buy something more economical. Watch that thermostat, don't set it so high this winter. Explore solar power, I have and my heating and cooling bills have dropped by 50%.

well put Tony...however have we considered what happens to your station guys when the price falls....is he selling his product ,which he paid a higher price for less...of course he is...I think we have all seen prices fall as fast as they rise...Just curious....wonder what the difference is in price at our respective locations....I'm looking out my window at a Exxon station....$1.45 reg....$1.54 91octane(mid) regular at Costco is $1.41...yours???

Again, I ask - what's wrong with making a profit? That's why you go into business - any business! That's the goal of every single person - to make as much money as possible. As you said - no one can live without oil/gas - if it's that valuable - why shouldn't the price be that high? I'm too lazy to look it up (actually, I just never intended to get this involved), but I heard that the price of gas has risen much slower than inflation over the years (50 years). I put 25,000 miles on my car every year and I hate paying $30 a pop each time I fill up, but I need my car so I'll pay whatever I have to for gas - that's pretty serious demand and should therefor be met with an adequate price. If oil is so readily available and there's so much profit in it - then maybe we should be in the business and get rich too.

Dang it carl, you're too fast....

We just dropped from $1.59 over the weekend to $1.52 for regular in Big D (that's Dallas)

Find a station for sale somewhere ... anywhere ... let 'em think you're a serious buyer so you can access the books ...

We can revisit this issue after you've done that and when we do, we're gonna be seein' eye to eye ... I guarantee it

Hey Phenix,
Sorry but I think we would be better served in reducing consumption rather than increasing production. Sell that SUV, and buy something more economical. Watch that thermostat, don't set it so high this winter. Explore solar power, I have and my heating and cooling bills have dropped by 50%.
On the supply side, I own several stripper wells, low production, under 60 bbl a day, most of them around 25 bbl a day. There is an experimental pump, replacement for the pumpjack, that is installed on one of them. It has had some problems, as far as getting consistant production, but has cut my electric bill on the well it has been installed on, and took a well that was producing 20-25 bbl a day, and has it producing 35-40 bbl a day. They are yet to have a "Hard unit", but that will come. The company is called EconoOilLift. That could help production.
On Drilling in Alaska, the local HS Chemistry teacher, who worked in Alaska for 25 years, as a chemist, told me that the problem with the oil in Alaska, was that it is pretty caustic. And special care, at additional cost, must be taken, in the refining process. I am not sure we want to drill in Alaska, until those problems have been solved.
As for the high fuel prices, they always are higher around Labor Day. Usually the president would stop filling the strategic oil reserves, during times of high prices, especially around a high travel holiday, but because of the Iraq thing, Bush has continued to fill the reserve. I believe that we will see a drop in fuel prices, though not to previous levels, within the next 2 weeks.
Just my .02
Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)

Here it is $1.68 reg $1.78 mid and premium is $1.88, diesel is $1.68.

Ethan, I see nothing wrong with making a profit. I just do not like to be gouged.

An actual occurrence. A few weeks ago while filling up at let's say BP. The gas was .15 lower than a BP that is 5 miles away. An older gentleman pulled up next to me and asked why gas was so low at this station. I shrugged and said don't complain. Be glad you stopped here. I went in to pay and so did he. He made the same comment to the manager. I drove back by 4 hours later and bam the gas had risen .15. Neither of these stations are anywhere near an interstate or major road. They only receive local traffic.

You proved my point very well. BUT I see nothing wrong with this. That's just good business sense. I don't understand the term "gouge" - to me it just means that for some reason you have a particular price in mind that happens to be lower then the equilibrium price. If you're paying the price, then to me, that means that they have it set appropriately. When people stop paying - that's when you have your price set too high. And Steve, this applies to wholesalers and retailers alike. It's seems pretty simple....what else am I missing?

True of unnecessary items. I consider gas a necessity. The price I will pay for gas has no limit while the price I pay for a luxury item will have a cap. I am sure many others do/feel the same.

There are many who feel it is just legal stealing. Except in MO where they busted a few stations for(here it is again) gouging the general public. They charged the station owners but I do not remeber the actual charge.

Homebrew...now you've got the right idea...unfortunately you ,I believe are the exception,I agree..1 gal of reduction in consumption has exactly the same effect as 1 gal of production...we have to do Both to hold check on the prices....hell now we complete wells with 15 bpd prod..when we used to call that a dry hole and plug it...same cost but lower production....alternative fuels ...yes a mix of sources...but I have yet to see a willingness on anyone's part to pay for the cost or inconvience to impletement it...only pay lip-service....
I believe I read somewhere that calif(and I sorry to pick on them as an example)their population has increased approx. 125% since the brought the last power-plant on line,nuke or otherwise....then they drag on the demand of other states...then whine that they are being gouged....

Brew...oh yea if we do solve any tech problems with Alaskan crude And we approve the drilling/explortion...where is the most logical and cost effective location for refining WEST COAST of course....how would you like to get that approval for a refinery....they'll ban it....force it to Utah or Texas and bitch and moan about the price to ship it back....comes at a price...

Yup. Leave it to the Texans. We love our refineries...