OK, here's MY two cents worth!
A local newspaper said Bush apologized for the atrocities, and had a poll URL to express whether the readers thought we SHOULD apologize to the Arab word for these heinous acts. I think we owe them an apology, and it will be forthcoming as soon as a few preconditions are met.
1) the "Arab World" (hereafter referred to as "the ragheads") apologize for the bombing of the Pan Am Flight over Lockerbie Scotland, and Libya turns the perpetrators over to the American, or British authorities.
2)The ragheads apologize for the Marine Barracks bombing in the eighties, and for all the lesser bombings they've done to commemorate the event on it's anniversary every year since.
3)the ragheads apologize for the missle strike against the USS Stark in 1988.
4)the ragheads apologize for the laying the minefield the USS Samuel B. Roberts wandered into in 1988.
5)the ragheads apologize for the First WTC bombing in 1993.
4)the ragheads cease attempting to totally destroy the state of Israel, and negotiate in good faith for a change.
5)the ragheads apologize for the bombing of two US embasies in Southern Africa in 1998.
6)the ragheads apologize for the bombing of the Khobar Towers housing block in Saudi Arabia.
7)the ragheads apologize for the bombing of the USS Cole in 2000.
8)the ragheads apologize for killing 2400+ of our innocent citizens on September 11th 2001, and make reparations to the families of those victims, and the victims of atrocities I've already mentioned, and those I haven't gotten to yet! And reparations to the US and international businesses that lost significant assets in that attack!
9)the ragheads stop paying rewards to the families of suicide bombers, and holding them up as heros.
10)the ragheads stop allowing groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad to have offices in their cities, as though they were legitimate organizations. Further to root these groups out and destroy them, so as to break the cycle of hatred.
11)the ragheads should display the same outrage they've shown at the prison atrocities to the beheading of Daniel Pearl (what abuses was HE killed in revenge for?) and the Nick Berg beheading.
12)the ragheads should make restitution for the victims of extremeist terrorism in Israel for the past sixty years, and make efforts to re-educate their people on the senselessness of the violence, and conduct the same kind of sensitivity training US troops will probably be subject to now!

After all these things are done, the playing field will be in a position that an apology on our part would be appropriate!

like I said....my .02 worth!

BTW, WHEN will the idiots among us ever learn that IF they are going to insist on being ignorant, they NOT capture the moment on film and videotape!

I just saw the Berg video. I'm pleased to announce that if you don't hear from me for awhile, I will probably be making an appearance (with a couple hundred friends all dressed in coffee-stains) at a sandbox near you (if you are somewhere where the temperature is somewhat over temparate).

I leave soon myself. See ya there C-dub!

S--TS ON! time ta kick ass and take names!

oh, the hell with the names!

scottbodman

I agree that the treatment of a few Iraqis and the murder of Mr. Berg shouldn't be seen as equal. What was done to the Iraqis in our custody was wrong but hardly the same as brutally and sadistically killing someone.

But I think most Americans are upset (shocked may be to strong) by the treatment of Iraqi prisoners. It goes against our sense of fair play. Our sense that we are better than that. That everyone, even the worst amoung us, deserves fair and decent treatment.

I realize that there are also those amoung us who say to hell with fair and decent treatment. They get what they get. Eye for an eye only makes us more like them.

I'm just amazed that the actions of 10 - 15 demented American GI "youth" have taken such precedence over the Nick Berg issue. 15 of 150,000 troops misbehave, are discovered, are held accountable, will be court martialed and disciplined appropriately. There is no cover up... there is no attempt to sweep it under the rug and yet many members of Congress (mostly Democrats) express outrage at of Commander in Chief.

Of course, when they do comment on the Nick Berg situation, it will be (like Mr. Berg's father) to blame President Bush for the whole thing. After all, it's Mr. Bush's war right??? He sent over our troops without any approval from anybody... right?? Ohhhhh... wait a minute... Congress gave overwhelming support for him to take this action. Wait a minute!! Didn't a guy named Kerry even support these actions?? I seem to remember Kerry even saying in his last senatorial campaign something to this effect, "If you don't think Saddam Hussein is a threat and needs to be stopped, then don't vote for John Kerry."

I'm saddened to see that political diatribe rules the day and we are missing the "real" positive happenings which occur daily in Iraq.

MDavis, let me give you a hypothetical scenario, suppose the people in custody, who were by the way terrorists, insurgents, etc… Not “army regulars” suppose they were being subjected to some psychological warfare under the guise of humiliation, sleep depravation, etc… And suppose that you’re there “caring” for them. You with me? Now suppose your buddies, people you knew personally were killed by these terrorists, hiding from churches and the like, sniping, hiding their faces, planting roadside bombs, etc… We know for a fact that these men were involved in this type of activity. Are you still with me? Now suppose that by degrading these “men”, and diminishing their capacity to resist interrogation, that you gain information with respect to who is committing the “real” atrocities, who is conducting the bombings, who is running around cutting people’s heads off? What then? Suppose with this information, you could potentially stop future attacks on your fellow soldiers? End hostilities sooner? Return peace and stability to that war torn nation? Do you maintain that there is simply no possible scenario where you could agree with what was done?

Let’s take it a step further, suppose we had people in custody before 9/11 who had knowledge of the plans. Would you still feel so strongly that we should not parade them around naked in front of each other and put underwear on their heads? To get information to prevent the death of innocent thousands of civilians? I’m curious given the aforementioned VERY LIKELY set of circumstances. After all, these people weren’t suspected or alleged bad guys, they ARE bad guys. Keep in mind also that while you may be a good and decent person who means no harm to others, as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, there are people in this world who wake up every day and think of ways to kill you and me and our families. That is their number one goal. And if a couple of towel headed, gun wheedling, IED making, American hating, face hiding, camel jockeying, throat cutting, WMD hiding, mass murdering, plane crashing, freedom hating, Muslim terrorists, card carrying Al-Queda members have to be “humiliated” to save ONE AMERICAN LIFE, then I say, please LET ME BE FIRST IN LINE TO CHECK HIS PROSTRATE!!!

Robby,

Sounds like you've become what you hate. Mistreatment of today's terrorist leads to mistreatment of tomorrows cabdriver, shop keeper etc.

I guess my response is - if this treatment was effective in stopping the insurgents, why are we still filling military hospitals with wounded? By all accounts these interrogation techniques have been going on for quite some time. Secondly, inflaming the Iraqi population makes our troops safer, how? It is dangerous enough walking street patrols without having some brother-in-law or uncle or father looking for a little pay back.

The expert on this issue, Senator McCain, agrees. Mistreatment of prisoners is wrong, for whatever reason.

Were we "mistreating" the Japanese when we dropped the A-bomb on them?

And correct me if I’m wrong PLEASE! But according to the Geneva convention, if they’re not in uniform, they can be considered spies? Yes? And again according to the Geneva convention, if they are “spies” we can hang them? Or shoot them? Or whatever? So you’d be ok with that, right? Because they’re not in uniform (read the Geneva convention). Yes, then you’re right, we shouldn’t pile them up naked and put them in dog collars, we should execute them as enemy spies. I agree wholeheartedly, we SHOULD follow the rules, ALL OF THE RULES! Welcome aboard!

Robby,

I agree.

BTW, I couldn't find anything about panties anywhere in the Geneva Convention. 😉

Yo Scott: The geneva concoction states you may kill your enemy but not in such a way that would cause his panties to bunch-up. JonR

Does it say that you have to kill your enemy in such a way that the American media elitists don't get THEIR panties in a bunch?

Robby

Did we "mistreat" the Japanese. You bet. Getting nuked is the ultimate "mistreatment". Was America right to use the "bomb"? You bet. By all accounts it was going to cost us hundreds of thousands of lives to invade the Japanese islands. Not sure I understand the analogy.

Ok, how many then? How many lives constitutes "justifiable mistreatment" Just a moment ago, you said it was wrong period... Now that position is moderating? So we've established that if we can save American lives by allowing some carnage and or "mistreatment" of "our enemy", then it is in fact "justifiable", so where do you draw the line? Hundreds of thousands? Tens of thousands? Thousands? Hundreds? How much are those American lives worth to you? As I stated, they are priceless in comparison to parading someone around with underwear on their head, or stacking them naked. I'll restate my claim that I will volunteer to be prostrate checker in chief if it helps save ONE American soldier... I can’t make it any clearer than that.

And oh, by the way, P.S., let's assume that the ONE hypothetical life that would be saved is your child...

Now how do you feel about it? After careful introspective contemplation please... No knee jerk reactions will be accepted.

would .like to see the unedited video. Can someone email the link to download or route to me?

smitty0128forums-cigars at yahoo.com

Sent and resent to the latest group. I dont have access to the file on weekends, sorry for the dealy.

WOW!