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Last post 8 years ago by teedubbya. 360 replies replies.
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So confederate flag supporters are racist, and don't know history....
jetblasted Offline
#151 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
"Most people die in the wilds cause they didn't do the one thing that could have saved their life...thinking"
jetblasted Offline
#152 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
Random thought.
Gene363 Offline
#153 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,822
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Don't give a ****,

I've been called racist, homophobic, bigoted, Yankee, Southern, White, Hate Mongering, Pro Life, Pro Choice, Pro-Religion, Neo-Con and just about everything in-between in my days here at CBid.

You know what?


IDGAF.

I don't answer to any of you. I don't answer to what you subscribe. I answer to what I answer to. This America that I live in isn't recognizable by our Founding Fathers anymore...oh, I'm sure they'd like something's that we've done with their grand experiment BUT they would shoot most of you for your beliefs and what they stood for when they carved this nation off the back side of an English penal colony. For the rest, they would've hung for treason for prostituting their beliefs in a 3 prong form of government that is now beholden to the all mighty dollar...be that from a banking system or a military system or just from a form of a bribe. This nation we live in now is a hybrid of what they designed. Don't believe me? Look at what they had to say about it. This is uncharted territory and I hope and pray for all that is still righteous in this republic that it restores it's former glory and conforms to it's pillars on which she was borne.

As for waving, showing or displaying this Dixie battle flag and thinking that there's some moral or upper ground to be salvaged it was lost back at Appomattox when Lee surrendered. Over. No more do over. Nothing left to cling to. Nothing left but the Republic for which She stands. Anything else is an affront to it. Some sort of insurrection that MUST be put down. Something that must not stand the light of day. Something that is abhorrent to all that we hold sanctified as a nation. If we don't go through that test of blood and unhold insurrection then we will most certainly be doomed to repeat the past and go through another Civil War. A war that will rip this nation into smaller parts. A nation that will be conquered and devoured by others that would like nothing more than to see Her consumed. A Nation weakened to the point of unraveling. THIS is what Lincoln railed against. He saw the wisdom in the Republic. He understood the evils that were against it then and the evils that would try to prevail after. A war that he was willing to wage against brother against brother to sanctify the Grand Experiment. He saw the document for what it was. He broke the holy sentiments to make sure She didn't unravel.

For those that STILL to this day, even against those that would put Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. aside like he didn't matter and what He stood for an uphold their belief that this battle flag is some sort of "heritage"...see it for what it is. A heritage where America as you all know it is shattered. Your Rights dissolved. The rights of certain people because the color of their skin is relegated to only a 3/5 minority. A nation that would be o divided now that as we know it we would still hold the hatred of racism...oh still still do and use Ol' Dixie as it's crutch. Death be upon it. It didn't serve any purpose. It was defeated then and it should and always be defeated. It's symbols of division won't stand. It's standing won't either. Those that still wave it should be looked down upon and should not deserve the common decency of it's citizenry. They should be lower standing than immigrants that want to be here legally. They want to destroy this nation. They wanted to see her hold humans down even after we removed the yoke of tyranny from King George and defeated his army and navy on the field of battle to create this nation. No, this flag should only remain in museums for those to look upon it with disgust. The same disgust that I hold against it for dare thinking for a second that any military insurrection would go unpunished with impunity. It's symbols and what it stood for lost. It lost against God, Country, and Man. It should not be upheld. Those that do should be persecuted like those in Germany are for waving any Nazi symbol! See it for what it is. Even the Germans understand the evil of the Nazi Third Reich and to this day destroy all of it's symbolism. Those in this nation are afforded certain liberties but to think for one second that it give them the moral high ground to put a race, creed or color down for it...NO! Your day is done. You were rebuked then and you shall be for evermore. You will be doomed for waving those signs of hatred and your hearts will be known for what you're doing.

You were defeated then. You're defeated now. You're defeated forever and no gates of Heaven will ever welcome you for your consumed hatred. Get over it and see it for what it was. A military insurrection against a standing nation to attempt some sort of division. A division borne from the color a Man was borne from against a Nation that told us we were ALL to be held equal.

Remove the flag from whatever you're clinging to because it's only hatred that binds you. Hatred against Mankind. Hatred against this great Nation. Hatred that no Man should hold in their heart because he did not create it. Hatred is borne from only ignorance. That ignorance we defeated because it was unjust. That ignorance was against all that God has created. That ignorance still stands in affront to all rational thinking as pure hate. See it for what it is and I implore those still trying to cling to it... do your due diligence and research what the Confederacy stood for. It was not moral, nor just nor something to die for. It was an affront to those then and it most certainly is to those now. Those that stood arm in arm in Mississippi and walked across bridges, those that dared to enter public schools in Alabama...those that gave their lives for the sheer hatred so certain people could hide behind their masks and wave "Ol' Dixie". No, it's time is done and it was brought down by one of your own! A person raised and steeped in hatred. A hatred so deep that he thought he would be perceived as some sort of hero for killing people in a church all because of the color of their skin. It needs to die and those that still cling to it are doomed for doing so. Your hearts are hardened. Your parents failed you and your Nation let you down. You're just some twisted misguided hate mongering killer that doesn't deserve the Rights this Nation affords you. YOU are a traitor. A conspirator against the Republic. A true hate rebel, and you will never get the retribution you seek. Hatred is hatred. In your heart, your tongue or in your soul it's still hatred and YOU are what is holding this nation from moving forward with the Grand Experiment. The kind that Jefferson, Addams, Revere, and Henry sought to carve out. You are a plague. A disease that is still here amongst us. A blight against Humanity that still breathes. An evil that should just die, but your heart still beats for it.


You need help.

Gene363 Offline
#154 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,822
MACS wrote:
Gotta disagree Johann.

Hate is not in a flag. Hate is not inherited. It is taught, or learned through experience.

If you believe that the rebel flag is a symbol of hate, and you equate it to the nazi flag, and the atrocities it espouses... then what about OUR flag?

What WE as a nation did to the Native American Indians... in the name of pilgrimage, is just as atrocious, if not moreso, than what the Germans did to the Jews. We were more cowardly about it. We gave them blankets laden with smallpox. We signed treaties with them and broke them, time after time. We promised them land, and gave them dried up sh*tholes.

The Stars and Stripes stand for what? Freedom? Or the raping and pillaging of an indigenous people?

My point now being made... shall we pack our sh*t and go back to England?

NO... WE SHALL NOT. History is history. We should leave it in the past, but move forward and learn from our mistakes.

My $.02


And well worth much more than $.02 However it turns out the Smallpox story isn't true, plenty of other bad, but not this.

This is the summary:
Quote:

In this analysis of the genocide rhetoric employed over the years by Ward Churchill, an ethnic studies professor at the University of Colorado, a "distressing" conclusion is reached: Churchill has habitually committed multiple counts of research misconduct—specifically, fabrication and falsification. While acknowledging the "politicization" of the topic and evidence of other outrages committed against Native American tribes in times past, this study examines the different versions of the "smallpox blankets" episode published by Churchill between 1994 and 2003. The "preponderance of evidence" standard of proof strongly indicates that Churchill fabricated events that never occurred—namely the U.S. Army's alleged distribution of smallpox infested blankets to the Mandan Indians in 1837. The analysis additionally reveals that Churchill falsified sources to support his fabricated version of events, and also concealed evidence in his cited sources that actually disconfirms, rather than substantiates, his allegations of genocide.


From Plagiary, the entire article is here: http://quod.lib.umich.edu/p/plag/5240451.0001.009/--did-the-us-army-distribute-smallpox-blankets-to-indians?rgn=main;view=fulltext

The British on the other hand...

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1088/did-whites-ever-give-native-americans-blankets-infected-with-smallpox

https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2011/01/07/the-smallpox-infected-blankets/

Unlike the Nazis, we did not have a plan to systematically exterminate the Native Americans as the Germans did for the Jews, Russians, Romany, the infirm, insane, unfit etc. The US treatment of Native Americans was brutal, heartless and horrific, but not on a level with what the Nazis did.
Speyside Offline
#155 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Wow, the level of hate shown here is shameful.
tailgater Offline
#156 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
MACS wrote:
Gotta disagree Johann.

Hate is not in a flag. Hate is not inherited. It is taught, or learned through experience.

If you believe that the rebel flag is a symbol of hate, and you equate it to the nazi flag, and the atrocities it espouses... then what about OUR flag?

What WE as a nation did to the Native American Indians... in the name of pilgrimage, is just as atrocious, if not moreso, than what the Germans did to the Jews. We were more cowardly about it. We gave them blankets laden with smallpox. We signed treaties with them and broke them, time after time. We promised them land, and gave them dried up sh*tholes.

The Stars and Stripes stand for what? Freedom? Or the raping and pillaging of an indigenous people?

My point now being made... shall we pack our sh*t and go back to England?

NO... WE SHALL NOT. History is history. We should leave it in the past, but move forward and learn from our mistakes.

My $.02


Wow.
Well stated.
And yet, you fled from Rhode Island. Where the US Slave Trade originated.

whip
tailgater Offline
#157 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Speyside wrote:
Wow, the level of hate shown here is shameful.


This is just talking on the boards.
Conversations like this go much better in person, as it keeps the bile in check.

Otherwise, we yankees will have to kick some more redneck azz.

Gene363 Offline
#158 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,822

After reading the posts in this thread I have a better understanding of response to anything about the Civil War from some, not all, folks living in the North. Using their collective "logic" I can conclude:

War crimes are OK

Committing human and cultural genocide can be justified and is a good idea both during war and after winning a war.

The US should have eliminated Southerners and any symbols of their existence. It follows that they would also want to do the same thing to Native Americans and any symbols of their existence.

What was done to Germany after WWI was good way to handle an enemy after a war.

It was a good thing to lock up the US citizens of Japanese decent during WWII.

We should not have helped rebuild Europe, in particular Germany and nor should be have helped rebuild Japan after WWII

Oh, and emotions rule over facts.
tonygraz Offline
#159 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,266
My conclusions would be different. It would be interesting as to what non-american impartial conclusions would be.
Brewha Online
#160 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Gene363 wrote:
After reading the posts in this thread I have a better understanding of response to anything about the Civil War from some, not all, folks living in the North. Using their collective "logic" I can conclude:

War crimes are OK

Committing human and cultural genocide can be justified and is a good idea both during war and after winning a war.

The US should have eliminated Southerners and any symbols of their existence. It follows that they would also want to do the same thing to Native Americans and any symbols of their existence.

What was done to Germany after WWI was good way to handle an enemy after a war.

It was a good thing to lock up the US citizens of Japanese decent during WWII.

We should not have helped rebuild Europe, in particular Germany and nor should be have helped rebuild Japan after WWII

Oh, and emotions rule over facts.

All of this does shed light on how such a shameful tragedy as the war happend. Even today, there are a lot of vile feeling about it, and none of us even have a dog in the fight.

We didn't need a war to settle the issues of the day. But people are so easily lead to hate. So the brave and honorable words turned into aggressive actions. And once there was blood, murder was the only answer.
If there was something good or honorable about the civil war I'm still looking for it.
cacman Offline
#161 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Brewha wrote:
If there was something good or honorable about the civil war I'm still looking for it.

IMHO - you won't find anything good or honorable about ANY war.
delta1 Offline
#162 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,797
Much easier to fear and hate, than to understand, or worse, to ignore the noble words and ideals of the founding fathers. Far easier to kill and make war than to make peace.
Gene363 Offline
#163 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,822
Brewha wrote:
All of this does shed light on how such a shameful tragedy as the war happend. Even today, there are a lot of vile feeling about it, and none of us even have a dog in the fight.

We didn't need a war to settle the issues of the day. But people are so easily lead to hate. So the brave and honorable words turned into aggressive actions. And once there was blood, murder was the only answer.
If there was something good or honorable about the civil war I'm still looking for it.


Agree, I've always seen the Civil War was a national tragedy. On the positive side, the nation today could take a lesson from Civil Ware veterans on both sides of the conflict. They were able to set aside their differences and show respect for one another e.g.:

Overview - Soldier Life in the Civil War

Quote:
The end of the war in 1865 brought a welcome peace, especially for the men who served as soldiers. Armies were disbanded and regiments mustered out of service. Former soldiers returned to the farms and stores they had left so long ago, but the memories of their service and old comrades did not disappear quite so rapidly. In the decade following the end of the Civil War, organizations of veterans of the North and South were formed. Northern veterans joined the Grand Army of the Republic and Confederate veterans enrolled in the United Confederate Veterans. For many years, G.A.R. posts and U.C.V. chapters met over reunion campfires retelling stories and recalling the friends who did not return. Many veterans wrote articles, stories, and poems for the magazines of both organizations. The G.A.R. and U.C.V. held powerful influence in political circles from 1878 through the turn of the century, but their influence faded as veterans in congress retired and passed out of politics. The last hurrah for both organizations came at Gettysburg in 1913 when 54,000 veterans attended the 1913 Anniversary celebration and Grand Reunion, and both organizations formally joined in a singular purpose of national unification and peace. America's involvement in the Great War (World War I) four years later brought hundreds of aged "Yanks" and "Johnnies" out to march together in military parades for one last time before they quickly faded into the background as the nation's attention focused on her "doughboys" serving in Europe.


See: http://www.civilwar.com/overview/soldier-life/148559-life-after-the-civil-war.html
wheelrite Offline
#164 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
a big yawn....

who cares....

The Rebel Flag is a relevant as the Peace Sign or the " I Heart NY"stuff.

REMEMBER THE ALAMO !!!


wheel,,
Brewha Online
#165 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Screw Alamo. The National Emerald aisle is the way to go.....
tonygraz Offline
#166 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,266
wheelrite wrote:
a big yawn....

who cares....

The Rebel Flag is a relevant as the Peace Sign or the " I Heart NY"stuff.

REMEMBER THE ALAMO !!!


wheel,,



Before my time foreign affair. Did Trump pay you to say that ?
Bitter Klinger Offline
#167 Posted:
Joined: 03-23-2013
Posts: 877
cacman wrote:
IMHO - you won't find anything good or honorable about ANY war.


You might consider finding it good and honorable that the veterans of WWII arranged it so that you didn't need to post that comment in German.
Bitter Klinger Offline
#168 Posted:
Joined: 03-23-2013
Posts: 877

This entire issue is sheer politics, and nothing more.

The rebel flag issue is part of the liberal agenda to continue to brand the deep south as "haters". Once thats established as "correct and true" through the MSM's constant drone of misinformation, it will set the stage for the same to be said of conservatism in general. The south is beingtargeted because aside from Texas, its the stronghold of conservatism. They will next move to brand conservative viewpoints as "hate" speech, and have already begun this movement. If this were not the direction of the agenda, the MSM wouldn't give the south (or its flag) 10 seconds worth of attention.

They use the MSM to whip up more division, distractions and garbage to deter any follow-up to the real stories that get mostly pushed away, regardless of the degree of seriousness. Our collective intelligence is being insulted on a daily basis as the norm. The rebel flag issue has long legs in the media because it actually advances their agendas on many fronts - gun control, censoring conservatism and covering up real stories.

And it keeps the attention off Skankles. Its quite the useful story, huh?
jetblasted Offline
#169 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
I know history & I love history. Regardless of the outcome, or who was right or wor, win or lose, it still history.

If you want to get a sense why Southernets still hate yankees, I'll give you this text from Jefferson Davis's - The Rise & Fall of the Confederacy. Now this subject is very deep. From Edmund Ruffin to John Calhoun, who is still listed as one of the five best Senators of all time.

But if you really want to know why Southernets hate Sherman, here is one ... Just one, personal account of his rampage of death, rape, persecution & torture through the South in 1864-65.

This account is from Cheraw, SC, where my best friend's Gr. Grandfather was one of the first to sign up, and did surrender at Appomattox with Gen. Lee. From there he walked back him to Cheraw, SC. Before he passed in the 30's, he was named a post Brig. Gen. By the UDC & SCV.

What's kinda interesting about that, it's his Gr. Grandfather, as opposed to my Gr. Gr. Granfather.

Interesting how this day & age we are only just that far removed from this Civil War ...
Jefferson Davis Manuscripit speaking of a a correspondence to him from Cheraw, SC ...

The war, which in its inception was waged for forcing us back into the Union, having failed to accomplish that purpose, passed into a second stage, in which it was attempted to conquer and rule our states as dependent provinces. Defeated in this design, our enemies entered upon another, which could have no other purpose than revenge and plunder of private property. In May, 1864, it was still characterized by the barbarism with which it had been previously conducted. Aged men, helpless women and children appealed in vain to the humanity which should be inspired by their condition, for immunity from arrest, incarceration, or banishment from their homes. Plunder and devastation of the property of noncombatants, destruction of private [601] dwellings, and even of edifices devoted to the worship of God, expeditions organized for the sole purpose of sacking cities, consigning them to the flames, killing the unarmed inhabitants, and inflicting horrible outrages on women and children, were some of the constantly recurring atrocities of the invader.
On June 19, 1864, Major General Hunter began his retreat from before Lynchburg down the Shenandoah Valley. Lieutenant General Early, who followed in pursuit, thus describes the destruction he witnessed along the route:

Houses had been burned, and helpless women and children left without shelter. The country had been stripped of provisions, and many families left without a morsel to eat. Furniture and bedding had been cut to pieces, and old men and women and children robbed of all the clothing they had, except that on their backs. Ladies' trunks had been rifled, and their dresses torn to pieces in mere wantonness. Even the negro girls had lost their little finery. At Lexington he had burned the Military Institute with all its contents, including its library and scientific apparatus. Washington College had been plundered, and the statue of Washingtonstolen. The residence of ex-Governor Letcher at that place had been burned by orders, and but a few minutes given Mrs. Letcher and her family to leave the house. In the county a most excellent Christian gentleman, a Mr. Creigh, had been hung, because, on a former occasion, he had killed a straggling and marauding Federal soldier while in the act of insulting and outraging the ladies of his family.1
A letter dated Charleston, September 14, 1865, written by Rev. Dr. John Bachman, then pastor of the Lutheran Church in that city, presents many facts respecting the devastation and robberies by the enemy in South Carolina. So much as relates to the march of Sherman's army through parts of the state is here presented:

When Sherman's army came sweeping through Carolina, leaving a broad track of desolation for hundreds of miles, whose steps were accompanied with fire, and sword, and blood, reminding us of the tender mercies of the Dukeof Alva, I happened to be at Cash's Depot, six miles from Cheraw. The owner was a widow, Mrs. Ellerbe, seventy-one years of age. Her son, Colonel Cash, was absent. I witnessed the barbarities inflicted on the aged, the widow, and young and delicate females. Officers, high in command, were engaged tearing from the ladies their watches, their ear and wedding rings, the daguerreotypes of those they loved and cherished. A lady of delicacy and refinement, a personal friend, was compelled to strip before them, that they might find concealed watches and other valuables under her dress. A system of torture was practiced toward the weak, unarmed, and defenseless, which, as far as I know and believe, was universal throughout the whole course of that invading army. Before they arrived at a plantation, they inquired the names of the most faithful and trustworthy family servants; these were immediately seized, pistols were presented
[602] at their heads; with the most terrific curses, they were threatened to be shot if they did not assist them in finding buried treasures. If this did not succeed, they were tied up and cruelly beaten. Several poor creatures died under the infliction. The last resort was that of hanging, and the officers and men of the triumphant army of General Sherman were engaged in erecting gallows and hanging up these faithful and devoted servants. They were strung up until life was nearly extinct, when they were let down, suffered to rest awhile, then threatened and hung up again. It is not surprising that some should have been left hanging so long that they were taken down dead. Coolly and deliberately these hardened men proceeded on their way, as if they had perpetrated no crime, and as if the God of heaven would not pursue them with his vengeance. But it was not alone the poor blacks (to whom they professed to come as liberators) that were thus subjected to torture and death. Gentlemen of high character, pure and honorable and gray-headed, unconnected with the military, were dragged from their fields or their beds, and subjected to this process of threats, beating, and hanging. Along the whole track of Sherman's army, traces remain of the cruelty and inhumanity practiced on the aged and the defenseless. Some of those who were hung up died under the rope, while their cruel murderers have not only been left unreproached and unhung, but have been hailed as heroes and patriots. The list of those martyrs whom the cupidity of the officers and men of Sherman's army sacrificed to their thirst for gold and silver, is large and most revolting. If the editors of this paper will give their consent to publish it, I will give it in full, attested by the names of the purest and best men and women of our Southern land.
I, who have been a witness to these acts of barbarity that are revolting to every feeling of humanity and mercy, was doomed to feel in my own person the effects of the avarice, cruelty, and despotism which characterized the men of that army. I was the only male guardian of the refined and delicate females who had fled there for shelter and protection. I soon ascertained the plan that was adopted in this wholesale system of plunder, insult, blasphemy, and brutality. The first party that came was headed by officers, from a colonel to a lieutenant, who acted with seeming politeness, and told me that they only came to secure our firearms, and when these were delivered up nothing in the house should be touched. Out of the house, they said, they were authorized to press forage for their large army. I told them that along the whole line of the march of Sherman's army, from Columbia to Cheraw, it had been ascertained that ladies had been robbed and personally insulted. I asked for a guard to protect the females. They said that there was no necessity for this, as the men dare not act contrary to orders. If any did not treat the ladies with proper respect, I might blow their brains out. ‘But,’ said I, ‘you have taken away our arms, and we are defenseless.’ They did not blush much, and made no reply. Shortly after this came the second party, before the first had left. They demanded the keys of the ladies' drawers, took away such articles as they wanted, then locked the drawers and put the keys in their pockets. In the mean time, they gathered up the spoons, knives, forks, towels, table-cloths, etc. As they were carrying them off, I appealed to the officers of the first party; they ordered the men to put back the things; the officer of the second party said he would see them d——d first; and, without further ado, packed them up, and they glanced at each other and smiled.

[603] The elegant carriage and all the vehicles on the premises were seized and filled with bacon and plunder. The smokehouses were emptied of their contents and carried off. Every head of poultry was seized and flung over their mules, and they presented the hideous picture in some of the scenes in “Forty Thieves.” Every article of harness they did not wish was cut in pieces.
By this time the first and second parties had left, and a third appeared on the field. They demanded the keys of the drawers, and, on being informed that they had been carried off, coolly and deliberately proceeded to break open the locks, took what they wanted, and when we uttered words of complaint were cursed. Every horse, mule, and carriage, even to the carts, was taken away, and, for hundred of miles, the last animal that cultivated the widow's corn-field, and the vehicles that once bore them to the house of worship, were carried off or broken into pieces and burned.

The first party that came promised to leave ten days provisions, the rest they carried off. An hour afterward, other hordes of marauders from the same army came and demanded the last pound of bacon and the last quart of meal. On Sunday, the negroes were dressed in their best suits. They were kicked, and knocked down and robbed of all their clothing, and they came to us in their shirtsleeves, having lost their hats, clothes, and shoes. Most of our own clothes had been hid in the woods. The negroes who had assisted in removing them were beaten and threatened with death, and compelled to show them where they were concealed. They cut open the trunks, threw my manuscripts and devotional books into a mud-hole, stole the ladies' jewelry, hair ornaments, etc., tore many garments into tatters, or gave the rest to the negro women to bribe them into criminal intercourse. These women afterward returned to us those articles that, after the mutilations, were scarcely worth preserving. The plantation, of one hundred and sixty negroes, was some distance from the house, and to this place successive parties of fifty at a time resorted for three long days and nights, the husbands and fathers being fired at and compelled to fly to the woods.

Now commenced scenes of licentiousness, brutality, and ravishment that have scarcely had an equal in the ages of heathen barbarity. I conversed with aged men and women, who were witnesses of these infamous acts of Sherman's unbridled soldiery, and several of them, from the cruel treatment they had received, were confined to their beds for weeks afterward. The time will come when the judgment of Heaven will await these libidinous, beastly barbarians. During this time, the fourth party, whom, I was informed by others, we had the most reason to dread, had made their appearance. They came, as they said, in the name of the great General Sherman, who was next to God Almighty. They came to burn and lay in ashes all that was left. They had burned bridges and depots, cotton-gins, mills, barns, and stables. They swore they would make the d——d rebel women pound their corn with rocks, and eat their raw meal without cooking. They succeeded in thousands of instances. I walked out at night, and the innumerable fires that were burning as far as the eye could reach, in hundreds of places, illuminated the whole heavens, and testified to the vindictive barbarity of the foe. I presume they had orders not to burn occupied houses, but they strove all in their power to compel families to fly from their houses that they might afterward burn them. The neighborhood was

[604] filled with refugees who had been compelled to fly from their plantations on the seaboard. As soon as they had fled, the torch was applied, and, for hundreds of miles, those elegant mansions, once the ornament and pride of our inland country, were burned to the ground.
All manner of expedients were now adopted to make the residents leave their homes for the second time. I heard them saying, ‘This is too large a house to be left standing, we must contrive to burn it.’ Canisters of powder were placed all around the house, and an expedient resorted to that promised almost certain success. The house was to be burned down by firing the outbuildings. These were so near each other that the firing of the one would lead to the destruction of all. I had already succeeded in having a few bales of cotton rolled out of the building, and hoped, if they had to be burned, the rest would also be rolled out, which could have been done in ten minutes by several hundred men who were looking on, gloating over the prospect of another elegant mansion in South Carolina being left in ashes. The torch was applied, and soon the large storehouse was on fire. This communicated to several other buildings in the vicinity, which, one by one, were burned to the ground. At length the fire reached the smoke-house, where they had already carried off the bacon of two hundred and fifty hogs. This was burned, and the fire was now rapidly approaching the kitchen, which was so near the dwelling-house that, should the former burn, the destruction of the large and noble edifice would be inevitable.

A captain of the United States service, a native of England, whose name I would like to mention here, if I did not fear to bring down upon him the censure of the abolitionists as a friend to the rebels, mounted the roof, and the wet blankets we sent up to him prevented the now smoking roof from bursting into flames. I called for help to assist us in procuring water from a deep well; a young lieutenant stepped up, condemned the infamous conduct of the burners, and called on his company for aid; a portion of them came cheerfully to our assistance; the wind seemed almost by a miracle to subside; the house was saved, and the trembling females thanked God for their deliverance. All this time, about one hundred mounted men were looking on, refusing to raise a hand to help us; laughing at the idea that no efforts of ours could save the house from the flames.

My trials, however, were not yet over. I had already suffered much in a pecuniary point of view. I had been collecting a library on natural history during a long life. The most valuable of these books had been presented by various societies in England, France, Germany, Russia, etc., who had honored me with membership, and they or the authors presented me with these works, which had never been for sale, and could not be purchased. My herbarium, the labor of myself and the ladies of my house for many years, was also among these books. I had left them as a legacy to the library of the Newbury College, and concluded to send them at once. They were detained in Columbia, and there the torch was applied, and all were burned. The stealing and burning of books appear to be one of the programmes on which the army acted. I had assisted in laying the foundation and dedicating the Lutheran Church at Columbia, and there, near its walls, had recently been laid the remains of one who was dearer to me than life itself. To set that brick church on fire from below was impossible. The building stood by itself on a square but little built up. One of

[605] Sherman's burners was sent up to the roof. He was seen applying the torch to the cupola. The church was burned to the ground, and the grave of my loved one desecrated. The story circulated, that the citizens had set their own city on fire, is utterly untrue, and only reflects dishonor on those who vilely perpetrated it. General Sherman had his army under control. The burning was by his orders, and ceased when he gave the command.
I was now doomed to experience in person the effects of avarice and barbarous cruelty. The robbers had been informed in the neighborhood that the family which I was protecting had buried one hundred thousand dollars in gold and silver. They first demanded my watch, which I had effectually secured from their grasp. They then asked me where the money had been hid. I told them I knew nothing about it, and did not believe there was a thousand dollars worth in all, and what there was had been carried off by the owner, Colonel Cash. All this was literally true. They then concluded to try an experiment on me which had proved so successful in hundreds of other instances. Coolly and deliberately they prepared to inflict torture on a defenseless, gray-headed old man. They carried me behind a stable, and once again demanded where the money was buried, or ‘I should be sent to hell in five minutes.’ They cocked their pistols and held them to my head. I told them to fire away. One of them, a square-built, broad-faced, large-mouthed, clumsy lieutenant, who had the face of a demon, and who did not utter five words without an awful blasphemy, now kicked me in the stomach until I fell breathless and prostrate. As soon as I was able, I rose again. He once more asked me where the silver was. I answered as before, ‘I do not know.’ With his heavy, elephant foot he now kicked me on my back until I fell again. Once more I arose, and he put the same question to me. I was nearly breathless, but answered as before. Thus was I either kicked or knocked down seven or eight times. I then told him it was perfectly useless for him to continue his threats or his blows. He might shoot me if he chose. I was ready and would not budge an inch, but requested him not to bruse and batter an unarmed, defenseless old man. ‘Now,’ said he, ‘I'll try a new plan. How would you like to have both your arms cut off,’ He did not wait for an answer, but with his heavy sheathed sword, struck me on my left arm, near the shoulder. I heard it crack; it hung powerless by my side, and I supposed it was broken. He then repeated the blow on the other arm. The pain was most excruciating, and it was several days before I could carve my food or take my arm out of a sling, and it was black and blue for weeks. (I refer to Dr. Kollock of Cheraw.) At that moment the ladies, headed by my daughter, who had only then been made aware of the brutality practiced upon me, rushed from the house, and came flying to my rescue. ‘You dare not murder my father,’ said my child; ‘he has been a minister in the same church for fifty years, and God has always protected, and will protect him.’ ‘Do you believe in a God, miss?’ said one of the brutal wretches; ‘I don't believe in a God, a heaven, nor a hell.’ ‘Carry me,’ said I, ‘to your General.’ I did not intend to go to General Sherman, who was at Cheraw, from whom, I was informed, no redress could be obtained, but to a general in the neighborhood, said to be a religious man. Our horses and carriages had all been taken away, and I was too much bruised to be able to walk. The other young officers came crowding around me very officiously, telling me that they would represent the case to the General,

[606] and that they would have him shot by ten o'clock the next morning. I saw the winks and glances that were interchanged between them. Every one gave a different name to the officers. The brute remained unpunished, as I saw him on the following morning, as insolent and as profane as he had been on the preceding day.
As yet, no punishment had fallen on the brutal hyena, and I strove to nurse my bruised body and heal my wounds, and forget the insults and injuries of the past. A few weeks after this I was sent for to perform a parochial duty at Mars Bluff, some twenty miles distant. Arriving at Florence in the vicinity, I was met by a crowd of young men connected with the militia. They were excited to the highest pitch of rage, and thirsted for revenge. They believed that among the prisoners that had just arrived on the railroad-car, on their way to Sumter, were the very men who committed such horrible outrages in the neighborhood. Many of their houses had been laid in ashes. They had been robbed of every means of support. Their horses had been seized; their cattle and hogs bayoneted; their mothers and sisters had been insulted, and robbed of their watches, ear and wedding rings. Some of their parents had been murdered in cold blood. The aged pastor, to whose voice they had so often listened, had been kicked and knocked down by repeated blows; and his hoary head had been dragged about in the sand. They entreated me to examine the prisoners and see whether I could identify the men that had inflicted such barbarities on me. I told them I would do so, provided they would remain where they were and not follow me. The prisoners saw me at a distance, held down their guilty heads, and trembled like aspen-leaves. All cruel men are cowards. One of my arms was still in a sling. With the other I raised some of their hats. They all begged for mercy. I said to them, ‘The other day you were tigers—you are sheep now.’ But a hideous object soon arrested my attention. There sat my brutal enemy—the vulgar, swaggering lieutenant, who had ridden up to the steps of the house, insulted the ladies, and beaten me most unmercifully. I approached him slowly, and, in a whisper asked him: ‘Do you know me, sir?—the old man whose pockets you first searched, to see whether he might not have a penknife to defend himself, and then kicked and knocked down with your fist and heavy scabbard?’ He presented the picture of an arrant coward, and in a trembling voice implored me to have mercy: ‘Don't let me be shot; have pity! Old man, beg for me! I won't do it again! For God's sake, save me! O God, help me!’ ‘Did you not tell my daughter there was no God? Why call on him now?’ ‘Oh, I have changed my mind; I believe in a God now.’ I turned and saw the impatient, flushed, and indignant crowd approaching. ‘What are they going to do with me?’ said he. ‘Do you hear that sound—click, click?’ ‘Yes,’ said he, ‘they are cocking their pistols.’ ‘True,’ said I; ‘and if I raise a finger you will have a dozen bullets through your brain.’ ‘Then I will go to hell; don't let them kill me. O Lord, have mercy!’ ‘Speak low,’ said I, ‘and don't open your lips.’ The men advanced. Already one had pulled me by the coat. ‘Show us the men.’ I gave no clew by which the guilty could be identified. I walked slowly through the car, sprang into the waiting carriage, and drove off.
jetblasted Offline
#170 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
I didn't realize this passage was that damned long, but it's worth a read, if you're curious what those danmed yankes did.
Bitter Klinger Offline
#171 Posted:
Joined: 03-23-2013
Posts: 877
Great read.

Count on none of the libtards making it past the first sentance.



teedubbya Offline
#172 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
It's fine to want to understand why southerners hate the damn Yankees but it may prove more useful to walk in the other shoes for awhile.

Frankly I'm glad the south didn't accomplish their attempt to break up this great country and at some point hope the get over it.
tailgater Offline
#173 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
jetblasted wrote:
I didn't realize this passage was that damned long, but it's worth a read, if you're curious what those danmed yankes did.


Any crimes committed on unarmed women and children should be considered a war crime.
With that said, it doesn't justify hate or even resentment 150 years later.
You can't blame the children for their father's crimes, so you damn well can't blame the grandchildren.

HockeyDad Offline
#174 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,137
tailgater wrote:
Any crimes committed on unarmed women and children should be considered a war crime.
With that said, it doesn't justify hate or even resentment 150 years later.
You can't blame the children for their father's crimes, so you damn well can't blame the grandchildren.




So you're not bought into the whole "40 acres and a mule" thing either?
riverdog Offline
#175 Posted:
Joined: 03-28-2008
Posts: 2,600
teedubbya wrote:
It's fine to want to understand why southerners hate the damn Yankees but it may prove more useful to walk in the other shoes for awhile.

Frankly I'm glad the south didn't accomplish their attempt to break up this great country and at some point hope the get over it.


Born, raised and lived most of my life in the south and quite proud of where I came from and what I've done. I've never felt the need to fly the battle flag from my truck or house and I have to agree with Teedub. You do not dishonor your ancestors by recognizing the futility and immorality of their cause. Nor do you have to bow your head in shame. Just move the flock on, and get over it.fog
tonygraz Offline
#176 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,266
jetblasted wrote:
I didn't realize this passage was that damned long, but it's worth a read, if you're curious what those danmed yankes did.


Long, boring and one sided heresay.
teedubbya Offline
#177 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
River I agree.

Jets long post reminds me of the "documentary" about the mistreatment of the Germans following wwii
Brewha Online
#178 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Bitter Klinger wrote:
Great read.

Count on none of the libtards making it past the first sentance.




Hate much?
DrafterX Offline
#179 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
I never got my 40 acres and a mule.... Sad
Brewha Online
#180 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
jetblasted wrote:
I didn't realize this passage was that damned long, but it's worth a read, if you're curious what those danmed yankes did.

Just out of curiosity Jet, do you feel that what Jefferson Davis wrote was fair and balanced?
Brewha Online
#181 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
DrafterX wrote:
I never got my 40 acres and a mule.... Sad

I never got my Obama phone.....
DrafterX Offline
#182 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
Those Bassards..!! Mad
teedubbya Offline
#183 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
It reminded me of this

http://www.hellstormdocumentary.com
DrafterX Offline
#184 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
German prisoners built a bunch or football stadiums and stuff around here.. Mellow
Brewha Online
#185 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
DrafterX wrote:
German prisoners built a bunch or football stadiums and stuff around here.. Mellow

I did not even know that we captured Germans in Oklahoma.
DrafterX Offline
#186 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
we imported them.... Mellow
Brewha Online
#187 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
teedubbya wrote:
It reminded me of this

http://www.hellstormdocumentary.com

I think Jet got it from a Fox "news article".
Brewha Online
#188 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
DrafterX wrote:
we imported them.... Mellow

Now that you mention it, that's prolly where we get most of our German stuff.....
tailgater Offline
#189 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
HockeyDad wrote:
So you're not bought into the whole "40 acres and a mule" thing either?


Mule? No.
But a pig with lipstick? Now you're talking.

Brewha Online
#190 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
tonygraz wrote:
Long, boring and one sided heresay.

Tony, you gotta remember that this was written along time ago, and had to be translated from southern to regular English. But it was not his best work.

You should see his first draft of the screen play for Roots.
It was a bit rough......
victor809 Offline
#191 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I'm more curious as to why people say with such pride things like : X was one of the first to sign up, or Y walked 100,000 miles to join the confederate army.
It is pretty clear from the declarations of war the reasons why the south declared war on the north. Slavery is mentioned within the first paragraph for all of the seceding states except on (South Carolina, who has an extensive preamble about the colonies and foundation of the US... and then discusses how that is violated by the northern states not giving it back it's fugitive slaves).

Do people realize what they are saying when they talk about how eager their friends or family were to run off and fight for that cause?

http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/primarysources/declarationofcauses.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/
dstieger Offline
#192 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Victor, are you paying ANY attention to a thing that Jet has written?

This is clearly a VERY emotional topic and trying to use any reason and/or logic to assess positions seems rather pointless.
victor809 Offline
#193 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
dstieger wrote:
Victor, are you paying ANY attention to a thing that Jet has written?

This is clearly a VERY emotional topic and trying to use any reason and/or logic to assess positions seems rather pointless.


Yep. And that's kind of why it doesn't make any sense to me. To be so emotionally invested in the participation of ones relatives in the losing side of a battle which our country is better for them having lost, 150 years ago.

None of that makes sense. None of it.

That is simply something which one should not be that emotionally invested in.

Emotional investment suggests support. Any even taking slavery completely out of it, that suggests they support the confederate army. They are proud that their relatives and friend's relatives rushed out to battle to secede from the union. One is not proud of a war one does not want to win. What's the end result of the confederacy winning? Whatever form our North American continent would have taken had the confederacy won, that's what people imply they wanted when they talk about how proud they are of their relative's eagerness to rush to battle.... in a war the south declared.
HockeyDad Offline
#194 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,137
A nation without New York, New Jersey, and Massachusetts doesn't actually sound that bad.
Burner02 Offline
#195 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,884
HockeyDad wrote:
A nation without New York, New Jersey, and Massachusetts doesn't actually sound that bad.



Adding Cal to the list is even better. We would allow a few of the posters to move else where and continue on.


Herfing
HockeyDad Offline
#196 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,137
Wait...I like Cali. Sure it's full of liberal douchebag treehuggers and homeless people but I would still move back there.
victor809 Offline
#197 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
HockeyDad wrote:
Wait...I like Cali. Sure it's full of liberal douchebag treehuggers and homeless people but I would still move back there.


Liberal commie nazi.
frankj1 Offline
#198 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
HockeyDad wrote:
A nation without New York, New Jersey, and Massachusetts doesn't actually sound that bad.

throw in CT and RI and we'd have almost all the good hospitals and universities.
cacman Offline
#199 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
HockeyDad wrote:
A nation without New York, New Jersey, and Massachusetts doesn't actually sound that bad.

Heck, why not just discard the original 13 colonies. Oh wait… they tried that already.
Gene363 Offline
#200 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,822
victor809 wrote:
Yep. And that's kind of why it doesn't make any sense to me. To be so emotionally invested in the participation of ones relatives in the losing side of a battle which our country is better for them having lost, 150 years ago.

None of that makes sense. None of it.

That is simply something which one should not be that emotionally invested in.

Emotional investment suggests support. Any even taking slavery completely out of it, that suggests they support the confederate army. They are proud that their relatives and friend's relatives rushed out to battle to secede from the union. One is not proud of a war one does not want to win. What's the end result of the confederacy winning? Whatever form our North American continent would have taken had the confederacy won, that's what people imply they wanted when they talk about how proud they are of their relative's eagerness to rush to battle.... in a war the south declared.


Kinda like carrying around the burden of slavery. People are never really free of emotional burdens until they chose to lay them down or die; blaming others, ranting and raving, passing laws etc will never be a substitute for laying down that burden.
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