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Last post 8 years ago by teedubbya. 360 replies replies.
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So confederate flag supporters are racist, and don't know history....
opelmanta1900 Offline
#201 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Gene363 wrote:
Kinda like carrying around the burden of slavery. People are never really free of emotional burdens until they chose to lay them down or die; blaming others, ranting and raving, passing laws etc will never be a substitute for laying down that burden.


actually, not at all like carrying around the burden of slavery... the "burden" of slavery - which was of no choice to black people - has had very real and lasting negative effects on the black population...

you are a very ignorant man to compare something like the effects of slavery to the effects of being the decendant of an individual who chose to rebel against the nation in which he lived because he didn't like being told he couldn't own black people...
HockeyDad Offline
#202 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,135
I think most people would agree that in hindsight although it seemed like a good idea to purchase black people from Africa to be used as slaves, it was actually a bad idea.
DrafterX Offline
#203 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
WWMS..?? What would Moses say..?? Think
Gene363 Offline
#204 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,820
opelmanta1900 wrote:
actually, not at all like carrying around the burden of slavery... the "burden" of slavery - which was of no choice to black people - has had very real and lasting negative effects on the black population...

you are a very ignorant man to compare something like the effects of slavery to the effects of being the decendant of an individual who chose to rebel against the nation in which he lived because he didn't like being told he couldn't own black people...


Your argument failed with a personal attack, nevertheless, you are incorrect, the source of the 'burden' is immaterial, it is the burden's weight the that drags one down, regardless of it's source. This applies to those on both sides of the Civil War.

As far as 'choice' goes, it wasn't much of a choice to those that actually fought and died on both sides of the Civil War. Further, they, just as those held in bondage, every single one long dead. Today, those carrying these burdens chose to do so. One is never truly free until they lay down the burdens that weigh them down.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#205 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Gene363 wrote:
Your argument failed with a personal attack, nevertheless, you are incorrect, the source of the 'burden' is immaterial, it is the burden's weight the that drags one down, regardless of it's source. This applies to those on both sides of the Civil War.

As far as 'choice' goes, it wasn't much of a choice to those that actually fought and died on both sides of the Civil War. Further, they, just as those held in bondage, every single one long dead. Today, those carrying these burdens chose to do so. One is never truly free until they lay down the burdens that weigh them down.


Not sure what"personal attack" you feel you just endured but I assure you it's all on your head... As for your very real ignorance, you are comparing - to use your analogy - a burden picked up by choice versus one applied by force... Incomparable in my book and likely most other thinking men's as well...

And fighting in a war is a choice... You don't get to have an opinion that differs on that fact... Loading a gun, pointing, aiming, firing, all a choice... If they didn't want to be there, there are always other options...
jetblasted Offline
#206 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
Was Jefferson Davis fair & balanced? I think he was. West Poimt graduate. Col. & Maj. Gen. In the U.S. Army, Sec. of War, U.S. Congressman & Senator.

Was slavery wrong? ... 1,000%
Was it a fact leading up to the war? Yes it was, but it was not the *only* reason for the war.

Do I wish there were two nations still today? That's kind of a stupid question to consider, and it's never one I've ever considered or even contemplated.

Why do people romanticize the fact our ancestors were the first to join & walk 100 miles to do so? It was because after the Deep South States seceded, the union amassed an army to force the South back into the U.S., and Johnny Reb signed up on the threat of an invading army. The South did not declare war on the U.S. They wanted to live peaceably. They signed up for sovereignty.

You have to remember that the upper Southern States did not join the Confederacy until After the U.S. started to amass an army for invasion.

Yes, the first shots were fired by the CSA at Fort Sumnter. It was at a ammo supply ship they shot at. The CSA viewed this as the union preparing for war, and the South struck the first blow. Fired First, by Edmund Ruffin, of all people.

I personally don't think the remembrance of the war would be as much, if the brutal crimes against common citizens had not occurred.

I do remember one time as a child of 8-10 years old, I said something about the war that set my great aunt Ruth *OFF* about Sherman. Screaming, turning red with intense rage about what he did to the poor women & children & aged of our County & evidence is still left here today. That's the first time I learned about the New Manchester Mill and the fate of those working there. The utter cruelty he imposed on civilians does carry down.

That, and all my whole life hearing northerners still continue to perpetuate stereotypes that Southerners are stupid, hicks, rednecks, inbred, and on & on & on & on.

In 1968 my first grade class in Georgia was the first year of school integration. Fast forward to 1973 & my Dad took a promotion & we moved to Worcester, MA. ... Right into the middle of the Boston School Busing Riots. The white residents of Boston were Losing Their Minds over integrated schools & causing riots. It was quite the lesson for this Southern Boy in 5th grade who found himself in Massachusetts. Throw in one of my first days in school, looking up to be surrounded by 10 kids when one of them said, "Talk for us", and when I did, I became the laughing stock of the school, and then the English test I took with the instructions to mark out all the silent letters in the words. Well, there were none, so I turned it in blank. I got two wrong. I didn't mark out the "silent" L's in the words Walk & Talk. I kid you not. By this time, I had made up my mind that the sanctimonious & holier than thou & righteous yankees were nothing but a bunch of dicks.

Yes, yes, yes, slavery was wrong, but my fascination of this great event in our nation's history is not to defend slavery, but to learn as much as I possibly can about the exact reasons in the minds of the men who wanted to start their own country, as had been done 85 years prior, and then be left alone.

In 1850, of the 9 million people in the South, it is commonly agreed that only 5% of the population owned slaves.

I just receive an original 1868 copy of Alexander Stephens (CSA VP) book, A constitutional view of the late war between the states: its causes, character, conduct and results. And, an original copy 1888 of Jefferson Davis book, The Rise and Fall of the Confederacy. I'm most interested in these two books on the men's personal take on their actions, in their own words. Not some historian who wrote about it 150 years later. Supposedly these two books lay out in great detail the Constitutional Reasons of the Legality of Secession, and THAT will be interesting to read.

My entire animosity over the Civil War, was the war crimes committed against women, children & the aged. And to those that find glee & joy in that, I would not want to be associated in any way with such a person.

And if anyone that didn't read the long account of Sherman in Cheraw, SC, what he did to white folks, he did to black folks, too.

Grave robbing looking for gold & silver just didn't happen in my hometown, it was a common occupancy everywhere Sherman went, and that is truly despicable, to dig up the dead, to pull gold off their teeth.

And some here have the nerve to compare the CSA to Nazi's.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#207 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Did your great aunt ruth go *OFF* when reminded of the atrocities committed against blacks in the south?

Slavery might not have been the "only" reason...

Sherman also wasn't the "only" general...
jetblasted Offline
#208 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
Yes, Sherman had blacks hanged for dead, because they wouldn't, or couldn't tell them where the gold earrings were hid. He also turned a blind eye to all the raping of black women his troops were doing.
Gene363 Offline
#209 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,820
[quote=opelmanta1900]Not sure what"personal attack" you feel you just endured but I assure you it's all on your head... As for your very real ignorance, you are comparing - to use your analogy - a burden picked up by choice versus one applied by force... Incomparable in my book and likely most other thinking men's as well...

Again, you are incorrect, there is no one living today that was a slave, held slaves or fought in the Civil war on either side. Any 'burden' from said tragedies are carried in the head of a living person are self imposed. That reality doesn't obliterate any facts or history.

You called me ignorant, your point of view is merely opinion, an opinion with which I disagree. My disagreement might make me disagreeable, but certainly not ignorant, so yes, it is a personal attack.

As for having a choice to be involved in the Civil War, I suspect you are looking at history through twenty first century glasses. There was conscription on both sides and objectors were not treated nicely.

See: http://www.civilwarhome.com/conscientiousobjectors.html
teedubbya Offline
#210 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
If hitler had lived his writings would be fair and balanced too.
victor809 Offline
#211 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Gene363 wrote:


Again, you are incorrect, there is no one living today that was a slave, held slaves or fought in the Civil war on either side. Any 'burden' from said tragedies are carried in the head of a living person are self imposed. That reality doesn't obliterate any facts or history.


To be fair, while they may have started abolishing slavery 150 years ago, there are people still alive today who were not afforded all the rights of citizens at some point in their life. This was not an instantaneous reversal occurring at the end of the war.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#212 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Gene363 wrote:
[quote=opelmanta1900]Not sure what"personal attack" you feel you just endured but I assure you it's all on your head... As for your very real ignorance, you are comparing - to use your analogy - a burden picked up by choice versus one applied by force... Incomparable in my book and likely most other thinking men's as well...

Again, you are incorrect, there is no one living today that was a slave, held slaves or fought in the Civil war on either side. Any 'burden' from said tragedies are carried in the head of a living person are self imposed. That reality doesn't obliterate any facts or history.

You called me ignorant, your point of view is merely opinion, an opinion with which I disagree. My disagreement might make me disagreeable, but certainly not ignorant, so yes, it is a personal attack.

As for having a choice to be involved in the Civil War, I suspect you are looking at history through twenty first century glasses. There was conscription on both sides and objectors were not treated nicely.

See: http://www.civilwarhome.com/conscientiousobjectors.html


ignorant, ignorant, ignorant... or maybe just stupid, I don't know... if you really think the situation that many poor blacks find themselves in today isn't directly tied to the oppression they endured you're far from brilliant, and disagreeable is too good a word for you...
victor809 Offline
#213 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
jetblasted wrote:
Was Jefferson Davis fair & balanced? I think he was. West Poimt graduate. Col. & Maj. Gen. In the U.S. Army, Sec. of War, U.S. Congressman & Senator.

......
Grave robbing looking for gold & silver just didn't happen in my hometown, it was a common occupancy everywhere Sherman went, and that is truly despicable, to dig up the dead, to pull gold off their teeth.

And some here have the nerve to compare the CSA to Nazi's.


Jet. You may be tired of southerners being teased for being southern. And that's fine. We're gonna tease you because you're clearly putting that chip on your shoulder... you know the cbid saying "get a coat".

But as for the actual meat of your post... there are a few things I find odd.
1 - I hear a lot of people defending the confederate flag say that the war of secession is not all about slavery. Please, enlighten me. What else was it about? State rights (to determine whether slavery is legal in their states)? Reciprocity (because the southern states were ticked off they couldn't take their slaves into northern states)? A lot of the excuses I hear over and over for why the war occurred, are just very high level ways of saying "slavery"... because every "state right" that they were looking to fight for, which they weren't allowed to do already, was own slaves. Or at least that's what it appears to be to me.

2 - Don't say the north started the war. The south fired the first shot. The north may have been building up troops, but we built up troops everywhere during the cold war. No one said the US was starting anything.

3 - You say you never considered or contemplated the idea of us having two nations. I find that a little short sighted. How can you have so much admiration for what your ancestors were doing without contemplating what would have been the end result if they succeeded? You aren't talking about people simply fighting bravely. You're talking about how eagerly they went to go fight bravely... that's an admiration for their motivation.

It just makes no sense to me.

As for all the stuff that happened during the war. This was well before the geneva convention, humans on all sides of every battle have done bad things (heard an interesting podcast about the Brits in Kenya just in the 1950s putting entire tribes in concentration camps, razing the villages, slaughtering the animals etc etc etc.) It sucks to be on the losing side of a battle, especially 150 years ago. But being treated sh$ttily by the people winning doesn't in any way raise the ideals of what they were losing for.
patriotfan1 Offline
#214 Posted:
Joined: 02-07-2015
Posts: 1
The Confederates were traters
jetblasted Offline
#215 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
To call the CSA traitors with disdain, you should remember that the colonists were traitors in 1776 ...
jetblasted Offline
#216 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
vic, to consider the "what-if" the CSA is hard to contemplate, as it's almost unconceivable, so I never even consider it.
Gene363 Offline
#217 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,820
victor809 wrote:
To be fair, while they may have started abolishing slavery 150 years ago, there are people still alive today who were not afforded all the rights of citizens at some point in their life. This was not an instantaneous reversal occurring at the end of the war.


True, civil rights sucked into the Sixties and to varying degrees beyond for blacks, no argument. There was segregation, anti black gun control laws, job discrimination, etc, you name it, all over the USA. But civil right and slavery are two different things. Speak with a 50 year old black person and you might get a shock. e.g., not being able to drive on the main street in a small town in Texas during most of the sixties. They may or may not still be letting that mind f * * k hold them back, it depends on the person. Speak to a twenty something black college student and they my not be carrying that burden, even to the point of saying, "Just because I'm black doesn't mean I'm ghetto trash." OTOH, they may already be packing a heavy load of hate and distrust, burdened with a past they never experienced, something that was imposed on them by those that find it impossible to more forward.
Gene363 Offline
#218 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,820
patriotfan1 wrote:
The Confederates were traters


What are "traters" a cross between a potato and a tomato?

FWIW, whomever you really are, the Founding Fathers were considered traitors by the British.
banderl Offline
#219 Posted:
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
jetblasted wrote:
To call the CSA traitors with disdain, you should remember that the colonists were traitors in 1776 ...




Big difference, they won their war.
victor809 Offline
#220 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
jetblasted wrote:
vic, to consider the "what-if" the CSA is hard to contemplate, as it's almost unconceivable, so I never even consider it.


Why is it inconceivable? If it's inconceivable, then they were fighting for no reason with no chance of winning. If they had a chance of winning, then it is conceivable that the south could have successfully deterred the north from forcing them back in to the union. If that happened, then your ancestors would have gotten what they fought so hard for.

You simply cannot be as invested in the history of the civil war as you are, and not contemplated what would have happened if they got what they wanted.

If you haven't contemplated it, then I'd urge you to sit down and contemplate it. Perhaps that's the issue, they you're so wrapped up in the romance of southerners running off to defend the south without thinking about what the repercussions would have been if they had actually succeeded.
Gene363 Offline
#221 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,820
opelmanta1900 wrote:
ignorant, ignorant, ignorant... or maybe just stupid, I don't know... if you really think the situation that many poor blacks find themselves in today isn't directly tied to the oppression they endured you're far from brilliant, and disagreeable is too good a word for you...


Such is your opinion; not even worth the press of a shift key.
victor809 Offline
#222 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
You're a traitor until you won.

Then you become a freedom fighter... or founding father of a nation... or some other positive name.

But true... if you don't win, you get stuck with traitor.
dkeage Offline
#223 Posted:
Joined: 03-05-2004
Posts: 15,152
WWCDD ? Think
jetblasted Offline
#224 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
victor809 wrote:
You simply cannot be as invested in the history of the civil war as you are, and not contemplated what would have happened if they got what they wanted.


Yes I can . . .

Mellow
jetblasted Offline
#225 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
The only thing that I can even consider, if the South would've won we'd had it made . . .

I'd probably run for President of the Southern States
The day Elvis passed away would be our national holiday
If the South woulda won, we woulda had it made

I'd make my Supreme Court down in Texas
And we wouldn't have no killers getting off free
If they were proven guilty, then they would swing quickly
Instead of writin' books and smilin' on TV

We'd all learn Cajan cookin' in Louisiana
And I'd put that capital back in Alabama
We'd put Florida on the right track, 'cause we'd take Miami back
And throw all them pushers in the slammer

Oh, if the south woulda won, we woulda had it made
I'd probably run for President of the Southern States
The day young Skynyrd died, we'd show our southern pride
If the south woulda won, we woulda had it made
"Play a little dixieland boys, ah yes"

I'd have all the whiskey made in Tennessee
And all the horses raised in those Kentucky hills
The national treasury would be in Tupelo, Mississippi
And I'd put Hank Williams picture on one hundred dollar bill

I'd have all the cars made in the Carolinas
And I'd ban all the ones made in China
I'd have every girl child sent to Georgia to learn to smile
And talk with that southern accent that drives men wild

I'd have all the fiddles made in Virginia
'Cause they sure can make 'em sound so fine
I'm going up on Wolverton Mountain and see ole Clifton Clowers
And have a sip of his good ole Arkansas wine

Hey, if the South woulda won we'd a had it made
I'd probably run for President of the Southern States
When Patsy Cline passed away, that would be our national holiday
If the South woulda won, we'd a had it made, olay he hee hee
I said if the South woulda won, we would a had it made

Might even be better off
jetblasted Offline
#226 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
As far as the States Rights issue, I've said it 100 times that slavery was wrong, and I am *not* defending them in regards to slavery. But, they viewed the northern states and the federal government pushing them around, and when this nation was first conceived, it was of 13 individual and independent and soverign states. They did not like what Lincoln was doing, forming an all powerful central government, and that's the basis behind the Sovereign States Right issue. They were tired of the northern states telling them who they could trade with and then turning around to demand very high tarriffs to be paid to the north.

One reason I got Jefferson Davis and Alexander Stephens books, is that they laid out in detailed terms why they felt seccesion was granted by the Constitution, and I'm interested in their personal views on States Rights. I'm looking fwd to reading them both and learning more about that issue. Also digging the fact I've got two original copies in great shape from 1868 and 1888. That's kinda cool . . .
banderl Offline
#227 Posted:
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
jetblasted wrote:
They did not like what Lincoln was doing, forming an all powerful central government, and that's the basis behind the Sovereign States Right issue.





Seven states seceded before Lincoln was sworn in.
So he really couldn't have been doing much of anything.
victor809 Offline
#228 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
jetblasted wrote:
As far as the States Rights issue, I've said it 100 times that slavery was wrong, and I am *not* defending them in regards to slavery. But, they viewed the northern states and the federal government pushing them around, and when this nation was first conceived, it was of 13 individual and independent and soverign states. They did not like what Lincoln was doing, forming an all powerful central government, and that's the basis behind the Sovereign States Right issue. They were tired of the northern states telling them who they could trade with and then turning around to demand very high tarriffs to be paid to the north.

One reason I got Jefferson Davis and Alexander Stephens books, is that they laid out in detailed terms why they felt seccesion was granted by the Constitution, and I'm interested in their personal views on States Rights. I'm looking fwd to reading them both and learning more about that issue. Also digging the fact I've got two original copies in great shape from 1868 and 1888. That's kinda cool . . .


But you're talking again about independent and sovereign states and their rights, and an encroaching powerful central government. What right, besides owning slaves, were they concerned about? You briefly mention trade and tariffs, what specific trade and tariffs?

The reason I ask is that their declaration of war was pretty clear. Each state spelled it out pretty d@mn clearly that they were fighting to be allowed to own slaves. If there were other reasons, as people keep claiming, there better be some solid documentation proving that.
victor809 Offline
#229 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
jetblasted wrote:
The only thing that I can even consider, if the South would've won we'd had it made . . .


Might even be better off


... well, as long as you're a certain skin color.
jetblasted Offline
#230 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
victor809 wrote:
... well, as long as you're a certain skin color.

It's a song, silly . . .
DrafterX Offline
#231 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
Axl wrote that song right..?? Huh
jetblasted Offline
#232 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
victor809 wrote:
But you're talking again about independent and sovereign states and their rights, and an encroaching powerful central government. What right, besides owning slaves, were they concerned about? You briefly mention trade and tariffs, what specific trade and tariffs?

The reason I ask is that their declaration of war was pretty clear. Each state spelled it out pretty d@mn clearly that they were fighting to be allowed to own slaves. If there were other reasons, as people keep claiming, there better be some solid documentation proving that.


Hence why I said that I will be reading the manuscripts of the Pres/Vice Pres of the CSA, very soon.

This is just a journey of learning. I'm trying to learn.
Not from slanted documentaries, or personal views, but straight from the horse's mouth.

As far as tariff's go, you can start with the Tariff of Abominations, which lead to the Nullification Crisis, which lead to Congress passing the Force Bill, authorizing the President to use military forces against South Carolina, as they were opposed to the high tariff's the northern states were imposing on them. The roots of this war just didn't start in 1860, but go way back to 1816.

See? you're learning things today. Ain't that great ?

ThumpUp
jetblasted Offline
#233 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
DrafterX wrote:
Axl wrote that song right..?? Huh


Hank Williams, Jr. !!!

whip
teedubbya Offline
#234 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Sounds like you are interested in learning more about the southern perspective/bias.
jetblasted Offline
#235 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
teedubbya wrote:
Sounds like you are interested in learning more about the southern perspective.

Duh . . .
tonygraz Offline
#236 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,262
I'm going to read "tropic of Cancer"
DrafterX Offline
#237 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
is that about the prostrate kind..?? Huh
frankj1 Offline
#238 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
seems to me that Jet is not a defender of slavery at all, more so that he is a chronicler of the "southern way", among other things forgotten by most (like burlesque e.g.) and whatever that means to him and that many of us are unable to understand. He's comes across as a proud son of several generations of which he is able to recite facts and I am jealous of his ability to recreate specifics of his heritage.

There seems to be a sadness and longing for the "old south" in much of what he posts for us to read. But I am reading rejection of what most of us also object to from its history.



jetblasted Offline
#239 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595

"The Past Isn't Dead. It Isn't Even Past" - William Faulkner
tonygraz Offline
#240 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,262
Is that available on Kindle ?
teedubbya Offline
#241 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I have no issue with celebrating ones ancestors even when they are on the wrong side of history and lost a gruesome war where good triumphed over evil. Let's hope they never try that again.
DrafterX Offline
#242 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee.... just sayin.... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#243 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
teedubbya wrote:
I have no issue with celebrating ones ancestors even when they are on the wrong side of history and lost a gruesome war where good triumphed over evil. Let's hope they never try that again.

also true.
tailgater Offline
#244 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
opelmanta1900 wrote:
ignorant, ignorant, ignorant... or maybe just stupid, I don't know... if you really think the situation that many poor blacks find themselves in today isn't directly tied to the oppression they endured you're far from brilliant, and disagreeable is too good a word for you...


Don't worry opel, we won't blame your great grandkids just because you're a ******.
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#245 Posted:
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
jetblasted wrote:
Was Jefferson Davis fair & balanced? I think he was. West Poimt graduate. Col. & Maj. Gen. In the U.S. Army, Sec. of War, U.S. Congressman & Senator.



So was Sherman, minus the political positions. Although Sherman eventually held higher military positions as the commanding general of the US army.
riverdog Offline
#246 Posted:
Joined: 03-28-2008
Posts: 2,600
tailgater wrote:
Don't worry opel, we won't blame your great grandkids just because you're a ******.

Finally, a voice of reason Applause
tamapatom Offline
#247 Posted:
Joined: 03-19-2015
Posts: 7,381
Below are some of the main points raised in speech calling for the adoption of a Constitution for the Confederate States which addressed where taxes should be spent, the elimination of unfair trade tariffs, changes to representation powers and that peculiar institution of slavery. This is very abbreviated (to assist those with ADD) but the statements below are word for word.

• This revolution has been signally marked, up to this time, by the fact of its having been accomplished without the loss of a single drop of blood.
• This new constitution or form of government, constitutes the subject to which your attention will be partly invited.
• We allow the imposition of no duty with a view of giving advantage to one class of persons, in any trade or business, over those of another.
• The true principle is to subject the commerce of every locality, to whatever burdens may be necessary to facilitate it.
• the new constitution provides that cabinet ministers and heads of departments may have the privilege of seats upon the floor of the Senate and House of Representatives.
• In the new constitution, provision has been made by which our heads of departments can speak for themselves
• In the new constitution it is six years instead of four, and the President rendered ineligible for a re-election.
• The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization.
• its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#248 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
tailgater wrote:
Don't worry opel, we won't blame your great grandkids just because you're a ******.


As intelligent a retort as I would expect from a new Englander...
HockeyDad Offline
#249 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,135
victor809 wrote:
To be fair, while they may have started abolishing slavery 150 years ago, there are people still alive today who were not afforded all the rights of citizens at some point in their life. This was not an instantaneous reversal occurring at the end of the war.



That is because the North is full of racists and never really gave a crap about ending slavery.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#250 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Gene363 wrote:
Such is your opinion; not even worth the press of a shift key.


That you are at a minimum ignorant, but possibly stupid if you deny the link between slavery and the current reality of many black individuals is not an opinion...
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