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Biden hates God.
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victor809 Offline
#351 Posted: Fri, Aug 21 2020, 4:02 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I mean.... I understood it.
RayR Online
#352 Posted: Fri, Aug 21 2020, 4:02 PM EST
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,903
This is pretty funny.

What if Joe Biden Were a Libertarian?

https://youtu.be/uDIsKkKHGt4
delta1 Offline
#353 Posted: Fri, Aug 21 2020, 7:27 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,806
he would not be POTUS
tonygraz Offline
#354 Posted: Fri, Aug 21 2020, 8:19 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,273
Yes, in American english.
Speyside Offline
#355 Posted: Fri, Aug 21 2020, 8:29 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Ray Ray I'm speaking directly to you based on part of your statements in 346.
RayR Online
#356 Posted: Fri, Aug 21 2020, 9:59 PM EST
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,903
Speyside wrote:
Ray Ray I'm speaking directly to you based on part of your statements in 346.


What did you say in 347 have to do with what I said in 346? I don't see what the connection is.
Spit It Out Boy.
.
RayR Online
#357 Posted: Fri, Aug 21 2020, 10:32 PM EST
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,903
delta1 wrote:
he would not be POTUS


You're probably right, most Americans like all that authoritarian talk about bans and mandates.
Brewha Offline
#358 Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2020, 11:59 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,199
RayR wrote:
Oh Geez! Another one, I never thought that there could be so many progressives among cigar smokers of all people.
You guys probably believe in increasing taxes on cigars because "it's for the children".

Now its Progressiveness freed the slaves. LOL! Yes, women got the vote but progressiveness worked to deny the freed slaves the right to vote or put so many obstacles in their way to make them give up.

As Jim Ostrowski wrote:
"Progressivism is the widely held belief that positive state action, that is, force, can improve society. There wasn’t a clear notion of this concept so I wrote a book about it. As I explain in, progressivism is a not a rational or logical system of thought but a form of self-help therapy that makes the progressive feel better by providing a magical solution to all of the life’s problems: state action. The problem is that it doesn’t work and makes matters worse. However, since progressivism wasn’t conceived as a rational ideology in the first place, its failure doesn’t faze the progressive. Instead, they cling to its therapeutic value by inventing scapegoats for the problems caused by state action. They also construe any problem as an instance where not enough state action was used. Hence, the endless calls for more spending to rescue a long series of failed progressive programs such as the drug war, government schools or the interventions into."
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/10/james-ostrowski/progressive-heal-thyself/

Now lets move on to more current meltdown events and the legacy of Progressivism.
BLM and ANTIFA Marxist Orcs rampaging through the streets, rioting, looting (socialism without the middle man), burning, destroying private and public property, assaulting and even killing. They are the legacy of Progressivism, they are Progressivism's Rosemary's Baby. You can't disown them, your sicko progressive mayors, governors etc... even embrace them. Yes sir, that's called "Progress"!ThumpUp

Jim Ostrowski is an idiot.
You would have to live in a pretty narrow hallway for his ramblings to make sense.


But just to be clear, you really believe this crap?
Dg west deptford Offline
#359 Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2020, 3:25 PM EST
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
Biden has put his foot down. "No miracles coming." He has strictly forbidden it in his acceptance speech. I wouldn't be surprised at all if our Heavenly Father decides in mercy to disobey his ignorant knowledge claim of God's will.
But then he also said he believes we all have the right to life as God's creation but we know he proudly supports chopping and salting our most vulnerable citizens in the womb. So take Biden with salt.
He went on to wax religious with his light and darkness talk but the party of darkness has always been known. Hint- it's the party of child murder, slavery & lawlessness.
Beware Joe - if the light that is in you be darkness how great is that darkness!

MAGA
Brewha Offline
#360 Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2020, 6:13 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,199
Dg,

Religion and logic are a fools mix. You should stick to what you have read and stop pontificating.
frankj1 Offline
#361 Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2020, 8:42 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
Brewha wrote:
Dg,

Religion and logic are a fools mix. You should stick to what you have read and stop pontificating.

add some likker... it doesn't ever end well.
bgz Offline
#362 Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2020, 8:58 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Dg west deptford wrote:
Biden has put his foot down. "No miracles coming." He has strictly forbidden it in his acceptance speech. I wouldn't be surprised at all if our Heavenly Father decides in mercy to disobey his ignorant knowledge claim of God's will.
But then he also said he believes we all have the right to life as God's creation but we know he proudly supports chopping and salting our most vulnerable citizens in the womb. So take Biden with salt.
He went on to wax religious with his light and darkness talk but the party of darkness has always been known. Hint- it's the party of child murder, slavery & lawlessness.
Beware Joe - if the light that is in you be darkness how great is that darkness!

MAGA


I'm pro abortion. From a scientific perspective... not murder. Just because you don't like it don't really mean sh*t. There's precedent in the supreme court. Changing that is about as likely as guns getting banned... it's not happening.

Not sure where you got slavery and lawlessness. Trump was buddies with the king kiddy pimp, not Joe... I mean he's got some skeletons himself, as do all candidates... but trump? ... lol

You seem to want it to go back to the dark ages... force everyone to believe for their own good... that's what it's about right? You hate atheists... those who don't believe.

You want to force your religion on Americans that have nothing to do with you. You claim it's murder to abort... I call it getting rid of an unwanted blob of bio-mass personally... and you wanting to force your "morals" on people. Not wanting to allow birth control because you believe your subjective opinion on the subject should be the last word on the matter.

Anyway, it doesn't bother me that Joe is a religious. Everyone has their faults.
Dg west deptford Offline
#363 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 6:31 AM EST
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
I don't hate atheists, I don't even believe in them. There's really no such thing. There's only truth deniers, & my Lord loved them so much He died to save them. I certainly don't want to block contraceptives. That's not my thing,that would supposedly be Joe's thing though. The blob you speak of chopping and salting is a separate creation of DNA with heartbeat fingerprints and pain receptors just like yours. So I guess you're a blob we can chop up & burn with salt solution if you become inconvenient in our pursuit of happiness? I don't want to force my faith on anyone but I do feel the need to warn you, one day you will die. Then judgement, are you ready? You see it would be hateful and selfish of me not to share my faith and Glorify Our Savior.
But men loved the darkness because their deeds were evil
tonygraz Offline
#364 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 7:08 AM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,273
Please be hateful and selfish.
bgz Offline
#365 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 8:54 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Lol he says he don't believe in atheists. Just close your eyes and wish us away...

You say we're truth deniers... I would consider us more truth seekers.

I ask what dominion do you believe your lord exists... do you believe it rules over all there is in the entire universe, or do you think it's local?

I imagine you just thought "what a stupid question", of course, there is only one, it rules over all there is (you probably said he though)... then you probably went something like ... "psshhh how dare he even consider the possibility the polytheists were correct"... wait, you probably didn't take it that far.

All there is... can you even comprehend how big "all there is"... is?

Are you are egocentric enough to believe a being who's dominion is the entirety of all there is... not just what you can see, but all there is... gives a flying f*ck about you? About someone like me? ... Who doesn't even care if it exists or not?

I think your concept of scale is a bit off. You can't look past the verses the mortal, human scribes cherry picked to keep their subjects in line roughly 500 years ago.

You seriously think those idiots knew more than we collectively know now?

Hate to break it to you... they didn't.
Brewha Offline
#366 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 9:41 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,199
tonygraz wrote:
Please be hateful and selfish.

LOL
victor809 Offline
#367 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 9:51 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
As long as they just keep their religion to themselves, I mostly just feel sorry for the religious.

They've been duped. Many of them because the idea of belonging to a group is significantly more important than logic.

It must be hard.
DrafterX Offline
#368 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 11:26 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,557
The official meeting of the Republican National Convention (RNC) delegates Monday morning emphasized the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance after a committee and a caucus meeting omitted the words from the pledge during the Democratic National Convention (DNC).


The omission of "under God" from the two relatively minor events sparked a backlash from Republicans, including President Trump, and a flurry of fact-checks pointing out that in the four major broadcasts each night Democrats did use the words "under God." But Republicans have still said the omission by the individual speakers -- there was no party directive on the words -- in the two meetings represents a disrespect Democrats have for people of faith.

"Two Democrat Caucus Meetings removed 'UNDER GOD' from the Pledge of Allegiance. It sounded not only strange, but terrible. That’s where they’re coming from!" Trump tweeted Sunday.

"At the Democrat National Convention, we know that at least two caucuses removed two words -- "under God" -- from the Pledge of Allegiance. We know too that at a previous Democrat convention, a recent one, the word "God" was almost totally removed from their platform. That could not, would not, ever happen here," Peter Goldberg, a delegate from Alaska, said to applause at Republicans' Monday morning meeting before leading the pledge.

"We know as Republicans that America must put its full trust and faith in that God, in order to do so so that every American citizen can have the blessings of security, the opportunity for prosperity and the ability to enjoy all of those freedoms that are enshrined in that divinely inspired document the Constitution of the United States of America."

Film at 11.... Mellow
Speyside Offline
#369 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 11:35 AM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Victor, the odds of a greater sentient power forming the earth are approximately zero. Aren't the odd of the earth randomly forming also approximately zero? In truth I have never really checked for either so I am only assuming.
victor809 Offline
#370 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 11:43 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Speyside wrote:
Victor, the odds of a greater sentient power forming the earth are approximately zero. Aren't the odd of the earth randomly forming also approximately zero? In truth I have never really checked for either so I am only assuming.


Not really.
One set of odds scales at least. As our view of the universe improves, and our ability to see just how many galaxies there are, just within our visible range, and how many stars there are in each galaxy that keeps increasing the number of times the "dice were rolled". Even something with very low odds of occurring will happen many times given both sufficient potential locations, and sufficient time.



However, a deity doesn't increase in probability with an expanded understanding of the universe.
Speyside Offline
#371 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 1:40 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I follow that but it doesn't really address my thought. If we go from 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000 to 10 in 100,000,000,000,000,000 the number is still approximately 0. And let's not use the term deity, I know that was the direction of the flow here, but I simply am talking about a greater sentient energy for lack of a better term. If that force is creating the universe conceptually the discussion would be different, but it seems to me the odds would be similar and approximately 0.
victor809 Offline
#372 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 1:54 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Speyside wrote:
I follow that but it doesn't really address my thought. If we go from 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000 to 10 in 100,000,000,000,000,000 the number is still approximately 0. And let's not use the term deity, I know that was the direction of the flow here, but I simply am talking about a greater sentient energy for lack of a better term. If that force is creating the universe conceptually the discussion would be different, but it seems to me the odds would be similar and approximately 0.


But you aren't only increasing by a magnitude of 10.

the odds of random formation of the earth might be very low (like your 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000) but that's in a single instance.

There are 10,000,000,000 galaxies in the currently observable universe.
There are estimated to be 100,000,000,000 stars in each galaxy.

That means in the observable universe, there are 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 potential single instances of occurrence.

Now, also remember time. an improbable occurrence not occurring right now, might happen in the next second.
The observable universe is over 10,000,000,000 years in age. And that's just what we can see through the speed of light.

That gives a huge number of potential instances for things to occur over an enormous space and with a huge number of energy and gravity centers.

This is the entire meaning behind the Fermi paradox.... with so much time, and so much matter, the odds of life being created become so high that the question begins to be "why haven't we run into another yet", rather than marveling at our creation as being some miracle.
Brewha Offline
#373 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 2:18 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,199
I have never felt that science was at odds with God. It is plausible that what we observe is merely the mechanisms he chose. I mean, He is purported to exist outside of time-space as we know it. So his actions should appear to be ordinate.

That said, the greatest proof for the existence or not of God is the human need for death defying beliefs that ease the burden of our mortality. These beliefs exist in various forms in every culture.

But in the end - no one really knows.....
bgz Offline
#374 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 2:48 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
That's my story... I don't know what happens to you when you die, and neither does anyone else.
tailgater Offline
#375 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 3:22 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
But you aren't only increasing by a magnitude of 10.

the odds of random formation of the earth might be very low (like your 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000) but that's in a single instance.

There are 10,000,000,000 galaxies in the currently observable universe.
There are estimated to be 100,000,000,000 stars in each galaxy.

That means in the observable universe, there are 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 potential single instances of occurrence.

Now, also remember time. an improbable occurrence not occurring right now, might happen in the next second.
The observable universe is over 10,000,000,000 years in age. And that's just what we can see through the speed of light.

That gives a huge number of potential instances for things to occur over an enormous space and with a huge number of energy and gravity centers.

This is the entire meaning behind the Fermi paradox.... with so much time, and so much matter, the odds of life being created become so high that the question begins to be "why haven't we run into another yet", rather than marveling at our creation as being some miracle.


Very well stated.

But one can't (or shouldn't) dismiss the premise that just because "life" could have been created spontaneously that it somehow proves a deity can't exist.
And this doesn't address the simplest query of all. Forget about life. why is there even a universe at all?

I think we're in the wrong smoking forum to discuss any further.
tailgater Offline
#376 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 3:24 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
bgz wrote:
That's my story... I don't know what happens to you when you die, and neither does anyone else.


A true atheist would insist that nothing happens. You die. It's over. End of story.
You've left a door open here.
Was it on purpose, or subconsciously?
CelticBomber Offline
#377 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 3:30 PM EST
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
tailgater wrote:
A true atheist would insist that nothing happens. You die. It's over. End of story.
You've left a door open here.
Was it on purpose, or subconsciously?



Actually, that's not correct. A true atheist making claims that they know nothing happens is no different than a religious person claiming to know what happens. Saying "I don't know." is an honest answer.

Whatever happens must be good though since no one seems to want to come back.
CelticBomber Offline
#378 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 3:32 PM EST
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
tailgater wrote:
I think we're in the wrong smoking forum to discuss any further.



If you ever jumped on a Vherf you'd know this is exactly the right forum.... bunch of potheads. The running joke is how did we all not meet on a marijuana forum?
victor809 Offline
#379 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 3:39 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
CelticBomber wrote:
If you ever jumped on a Vherf you'd know this is exactly the right forum.... bunch of potheads. The running joke is how did we all not meet on a marijuana forum?


This is true. I've been on and been the only fuxker smoking a cigar. Everyone else is high.

And I'm the one who's been accused of not being a cigar smoker.
victor809 Offline
#380 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 3:43 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
Very well stated.

But one can't (or shouldn't) dismiss the premise that just because "life" could have been created spontaneously that it somehow proves a deity can't exist.
And this doesn't address the simplest query of all. Forget about life. why is there even a universe at all?

I think we're in the wrong smoking forum to discuss any further.




I'm not using the probability of spontaneous life as a proof against the existence of a deity.
The lack of proof of a deity, and the near zero probability that any single specific deity exists makes deities irrelevant.

My only point was that the probability of "earth" coming into existence through basic forces of physics and chemistry scales with the complexity of the universe, while the probability of a deity does not scale (as the tenets of the deities generally specify that they are singular).
bgz Offline
#381 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 4:01 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
tailgater wrote:
A true atheist would insist that nothing happens. You die. It's over. End of story.
You've left a door open here.
Was it on purpose, or subconsciously?


I believe I'm classified as an agnostic atheist by those who make the labels... but make no mistake, an atheist I am.
Dg west deptford Offline
#382 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 6:27 PM EST
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
^ is all that absurdity absolutely true?
I could give you great evidence for God. The peer reviewed science coming out of the institute for creation research (www.icr.org)is awesome! But if I give you evidence I elevate you to the position of Judge and who's on trial? The Lord of Glory. So I won't give you evidence for something you already know but deny because you don't want to be accountable to a Holy, loving Creator.
Please remember I'm not promoting religion, putting anyone down or trying to present myself as someone who's attained perfection. Rather I'm encouraging faith and using logic and reason to do so. As well as trying to share my experience with a Holy, Loving Saviour who while "He spans the universe with his hand" "He knows how many hairs are on my head."
I know what happens after death with absolute certainty just like everyone else. I just no longer deny it. As someone who openly drinks far too much, smokes too much, gamble's, spends far too much money on cigars and wastes far too much time on this forum, to name a few of my obvious fleshly indulgences. I expect we have much more in common than you may think. As I've been given this ministry of reconciliation I'm just trying to do my part. You see the love of God has been shed abroad in my heart for you. As the psalmist says "taste and see the Lord is Good!" "There's pleasures for evermore at His right hand." "Eternity has been placed in your hearts." Don't show up to the Judgement seat without a Mediator is all I'm saying. Be reconciled with God today! All it takes is a little faith, humility & repentance.
Shalom!
bgz Offline
#383 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 7:18 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
I get it Dg... I do. I remember when my grandma found out I'm an atheist, she was astonished. Then our family friend and former Episcopal priest (Father Bill... RIP my friend) wasn't too thrilled when he found out, but he understood.

Problem is when you get to my level of understanding of science, religion is no longer compatible with your world view.

It really is that simple.
frankj1 Offline
#384 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 7:26 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
DrafterX wrote:
The official meeting of the Republican National Convention (RNC) delegates Monday morning emphasized the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance after a committee and a caucus meeting omitted the words from the pledge during the Democratic National Convention (DNC).


The omission of "under God" from the two relatively minor events sparked a backlash from Republicans, including President Trump, and a flurry of fact-checks pointing out that in the four major broadcasts each night Democrats did use the words "under God." But Republicans have still said the omission by the individual speakers -- there was no party directive on the words -- in the two meetings represents a disrespect Democrats have for people of faith.

"Two Democrat Caucus Meetings removed 'UNDER GOD' from the Pledge of Allegiance. It sounded not only strange, but terrible. That’s where they’re coming from!" Trump tweeted Sunday.

"At the Democrat National Convention, we know that at least two caucuses removed two words -- "under God" -- from the Pledge of Allegiance. We know too that at a previous Democrat convention, a recent one, the word "God" was almost totally removed from their platform. That could not, would not, ever happen here," Peter Goldberg, a delegate from Alaska, said to applause at Republicans' Monday morning meeting before leading the pledge.

"We know as Republicans that America must put its full trust and faith in that God, in order to do so so that every American citizen can have the blessings of security, the opportunity for prosperity and the ability to enjoy all of those freedoms that are enshrined in that divinely inspired document the Constitution of the United States of America."

Film at 11.... Mellow

so a couple of Dems dropped Under God.

and it just sounded so wrong?

Those two words were added in the mid fifties! They sounded weird for a while too.
The idea of a pledge to a flag is also a little commie style too...
Dg west deptford Offline
#385 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 8:21 PM EST
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
bgz wrote:
I get it Dg... I do. I remember when my grandma found out I'm an atheist, she was astonished. Then our family friend and former Episcopal priest (Father Bill... RIP my friend) wasn't too thrilled when he found out, but he understood.

Problem is when you get to my level of understanding of science, religion is no longer compatible with your world view.

It really is that simple.


Bgz, sincerely curious about " your level of understanding of science"
Do you believe absolute truth exists?
(absolute truth: that Which is true for all people all the time)
bgz Offline
#386 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 8:22 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Good point frank, I never thought about how much of a commie practice the pledge of allegiance is.

Now I'm kind of questioning the validity of it...

Thanks frank >:P
delta1 Offline
#387 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 8:27 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,806
in earlier times, we were expected to raise our right arm, palm down, towards the flag, after reciting the pledge...that was stopped when we saw too much of the Nazi salute in that part of the ritual

original pledge did not include "under God"
bgz Offline
#388 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 8:32 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Dg west deptford wrote:
Bgz, sincerely curious about " your level of understanding of science"
Do you believe absolute truth exists?
(absolute truth: that Which is true for all people all the time)


I believe there are truths that are objectively true to all observers relative to a timeline.

You want to hear something weird that I believe in?

If you pass a million electrons through a box that detects whether they are white or black and splits them up accordingly, you will get about a 50/50 split of each color.

Lets say you take all the black electrons and pass them through a hardness detector which splits them up by whether they are soft or hard, about a 50/50 split of those too.

So lets say you take one of those arbitrary sets, for our case we'll take the soft electrons (doesn't matter which one you pick). Now let's pass them through the color detector again...

I believe you'll end up with about 125000 black electrons.
Dg west deptford Offline
#389 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 8:36 PM EST
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
Excellent, so you know some things to be true to all people everywhere all the time.
Knowledge: justified true belief
Do you believe logic exists?
Dg west deptford Offline
#390 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 8:37 PM EST
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
An example of a law of logic is the law of non-contradiction. This law states, for instance, that it cannot both be true that my car is in the parking lot and that it is not in the parking lot at the same time, and in the same way.
bgz Offline
#391 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 8:38 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Dg west deptford wrote:
Excellent, so you know some things to be true to all people everywhere all the time.


I didn't say that... in fact... I said nothing close to that.
bgz Offline
#392 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 8:42 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Dg west deptford wrote:
An example of a law of logic is the law of non-contradiction. This law states, for instance, that it cannot both be true that my car is in the parking lot and that it is not in the parking lot at the same time, and in the same way.


I would argue that it is in fact possible for your car to exist in a parking spot and not in a parking spot at the same time if it was in a state of superposition relative to an external observer.
Dg west deptford Offline
#393 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 8:46 PM EST
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
you have acknowledged that there is absolute truth, that you know some things to be true but you don't believe in logic? Or do you believe that logic isn't universal and that it's person relative?
bgz Offline
#394 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 8:54 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
I've acknowledged that there are objective, verifiable facts that we can agree on as mutual observers of our timeline... for your example, if your car was observed in a parking spot at 2:00pm today, then it is objectively true to all observing parties.

However, if you had a completely isolated parking lot, and you have the choice to park in two spots... left or right.

Then you pick one, then for the sake of argument... have a heart attack and die before you can tell anyone.

How do we know which one you picked? We look, and observe it... we saw you chose the left parking spot.

If we were to go back in time (assuming it were possible to do as much), to the point right before we looked... then we looked again.

Now, lets say we did this over and over and over again until you showed up in the right spot, do you think the loop would be infinite?
frankj1 Offline
#395 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 8:56 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
delta1 wrote:
in earlier times, we were expected to raise our right arm, palm down, towards the flag, after reciting the pledge...that was stopped when we saw too much of the Nazi salute in that part of the ritual

original pledge did not include "under God"

added in 1954 I think. first version from late 19th century.
Didn't become everyday expected until 1940s or so, when the world was stressed out.
bgz Offline
#396 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 9:02 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
This concept will blow your mind even further... if we were to time travel back to right before the observation.

Would you still be dead?
Dg west deptford Offline
#397 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 9:05 PM EST
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
If you believe that logic is relative, then you don’t believe in any science. If logic does not apply universally, then it does not necessarily apply to your current stated worldview and you could be wrong about everything you think you know.
Moreover you would have no problem with any contradiction to what you think you know.
bgz Offline
#398 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 9:07 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
I think you need to read, and re-read everything I wrote. It pretty much lays out what I "believe".

I'm pretty sure you believe in fate.

Fate is not compatible with the way I view the world.
Dg west deptford Offline
#399 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 9:09 PM EST
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
Truth is I already know you believe in universal logic so let's skip that and move onto
Do you believe logic changes?
Keep in mind that the question is not whether or not our perception of logic changes, but whether or not logic itself can change. If you believe that logic changes, then for all you know logic has changed and contradictions are now valid.
bgz Offline
#400 Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2020, 9:16 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Dg west deptford wrote:
Truth is I already know you believe in universal logic so let's skip that and move onto
Do you believe logic changes?
Keep in mind that the question is not whether or not our perception of logic changes, but whether or not logic itself can change. If you believe that logic changes, then for all you know logic has changed and contradictions are now valid.


Before you go any further on this quest of yours, you should know that "logic" is quite literally my day job.

With the context that you are using the term logic... I'm not sure if your definition of it is tight enough for you and I to have a conversation on the subject.
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