TMCTLT
  • TMCTLT
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
14 years ago
I don't know how many if any have seen / read this and while it is lengthy it IS very well written and worth the read IMHO.



CANADIAN & AUSTRALIAN COMMENT

APPEARS AT THE END OF THE ARTICLE
THERE IS ALSO SOME RECENTLY ADDED BRITISH COMMENT.


This pilot hit the nail right on the head in his open letter.

The paper stated that some Muslim doctor is saying we are profiling him because he has been checked three times while getting on an
airplane. The following is a letter from a pilot.This well spoken man, who is a pilot with American Airlines, says what is in his heart,
beautifully....

- Read, absorb.......and pass this on.





YOU WORRY ME!
By Captain John Maniscalco, American Airlines Pilot

I've been trying to say this since 911, but you worry me. I wish you didn't. I wish when I walked down the streets of this country that I love, that your color and culture still blended with the beautiful human landscape we enjoy in this country. But you don't blend in anymore. I notice you, and it worries me.

I notice you because I can't help it anymore. People from your homelands, professing to be Muslims, have been attacking and killing my fellow citizens and our friends for more than 20 years now. I don't fully understand their grievances and hate, but I know that nothing can justify the inhumanity of their attacks.

On September 11, ARAB-MUSLIMS hijacked four jetliners in my country. They cut the throats of women in front of children and brutally stabbed to death others. They took control of those planes and crashed them into buildings, killing thousands of proud fathers, loving sons, wise grandparents, elegant daughters, best friends, favorite coaches, fearless public servants, and children's mothers.

The Palestinians celebrated, the Iraqis were overjoyed as was most of the Arab world. So, I notice you now. I don't want to be worried. I don't want to be consumed by the same rage, hate and prejudice that has destroyed the soul of these terrorists. But I need your help. As a rational American, trying to protect my country and family in an irrational and unsafe world, I must know how to tell the difference between you, and the Arab/Muslim terrorist.

How do I differentiate between the true Arab/Muslim Americans and the Arab/Muslim terrorists in our communities who are attending our schools, enjoying our parks, and living in OUR communities under the protection of OUR constitution, while they plot the next attack that will slaughter MORE of the same good neighbors and children?

The events of September 11 changed the answer. It is not MY responsibility to determine which of you embraces our great country, with ALL of its religions, with ALL of its different citizens, with all of its faults. It is time for every Arab/Muslim in this country to determine it for me. I want to know, I DEMAND to know and I have a right to know, whether or not you love America ... Do you pledge allegiance to its flag? Do you proudly display it in front of your house, or on your car? Do you pray in your many daily prayers that
Allah will bless this nation; that He will protect it and let it prosper? Or do you pray that Allah with destroy it in one of your Jihads? Are you thankful for the freedom that this nation affords? A freedom that was paid for by the blood of hundreds of thousands of patriots who gave their lives for this country? Are you willing to preserve this freedom by also paying the ultimate sacrifice? Do you love America? ? If this is your commitment, then I need YOU to start letting ME know about it.

Your Muslim leaders in this nation should be flooding the media at this time with hard facts on your faith, and what hard actions YOU are taking as a community and as a religion to protect the United States of America . Please, no more benign overtures of regret for the death of the innocent, because I worry about who you regard as innocent.... No more benign overtures of condemnation for the unprovoked attacks,
because I worry about what is unprovoked to you. I am not interested in any more sympathy; I am interested only in action. What will you do for America - our great country - at this time of crisis, at this time of war?

I want to see Arab-Muslims waving the AMERICAN flag in the streets. I want to hear you chanting 'Allah Bless America'. I want to see young Arab/Muslim men enlisting in the military. I want to see a commitment of money, time and emotion to the victims of this butchering and to this nation as a whole.

The FBI has a list of over 400 people they want to talk to regarding the WTC attack. Many of these people live and socialize right now in Muslim communities. You know them. You know where they are. Hand them over to us, NOW! But I have seen little even approaching this sort of action. Instead I have seen an already closed and secretive community close even tighter. You have disappeared from the streets. You have
posted armed security guards at your facilities. You have threatened lawsuits. You have screamed for protection from reprisals.

The very few Arab/Muslim representatives that HAVE appeared in the media were defensive and equivocating. They seemed more concerned with making sure that the United States proves who was responsible before taking action. They seemed more concerned with protecting their fellow
Muslims from violence directed towards them in the United States and abroad than they did with supporting our country and denouncing 'leaders' like Khadafi, Hussein, Farrakhan, and Arafat.

IF the true teachings of Islam proclaim tolerance and peace and love for all people, then I want chapter and verse from the Koran and statements from popular Muslim leaders to back it up. What good is it if the teachings in the Koran are good, pure, and true, when your 'leaders' ARE teaching fanatical interpretations, terrorism, and intolerance? It matters little how good Islam SHOULD BE if huge numbers of the world's Muslims interpret the teachings of Mohammed incorrectly and adhere to a degenerative form of the religion.

A form that has been demonstrated to us over and over again. A form whose structure is built upon a foundation of violence, death, and suicide.
A form whose members are recruited from the prisons around the world. A form whose members (some as young as five years old) are seen day after day, week in and week out, year after year, marching in the streets around the world, burning effigies of our presidents, burning the American flag, shooting weapons into the air.

A form whose members convert from a peaceful religion, only to take up arms against the
great United States of America, the country of their birth. A form whose rules are so twisted, that their traveling members refuse to show their faces at airport security checkpoints, in the name of Islam.

We will NEVER allow the attacks of September 11, or any others for that matter, to take away that which is so precious to us – our rights under the greatest constitution in the world. I want to know where every Arab Muslim in this country stands and I think it is my right and the right of every true citizen of this country to DEMAND it. A right paid for by the blood of thousands of my brothers and sisters who died protecting the very constitution that is protecting you and your family.

I am pleading with you to let me know. I want you here as my brother, my neighbor, my friend, as a fellow American..... But there can be no gray areas or ambivalence regarding your allegiance, and it is up to YOU, to show ME, where YOU stand. Until then, "YOU WORRY ME!"

CANADIAN COMMENTS:
I totally agree with this sentiment. I hope you will forget all about the 'political correctness' mandate we've had rammed down our throats, and see if this doesn't ring true in your heart and mind. For Canada , with all the multiculturalism we've been told is so important....why should we not, as Canadians, expect that the millions of new people immigrating to our country will show their love for our country, their allegiance to our country, their willingness to obey the laws of our country, and acceptance that we are a Christian country? Just because they are able to enjoy exercising their own religion, they should NOT expect us to be ashamed of ours. They knew Canada was a Christian country when they came here. Why are we erasing Christianity because immigrants who are unwilling to adopt our way of life expect us to?
There is just too much insanity in the world, and we have to start taking a stand.

I hope you will forward this, so that others will feel they are not alone if they are starting to feel the same.

BRITISH COMMENTS:

At last a clear non racist example of the concerns that the vast majority of our Nations population probably share. The pilot's letter encapsulates all that is fair and just about national pride and protection of one's national culture. I fear it may be too late here in UK, BUT we too want our country back in the form that attracted all these different cultures to come here in the first place!! In all our conversations with a wide range of friends and acquaintances we have not met one that disagrees with our own views. If only we all had the courage of our convictions to pass this on, it is a statement that should be accepted as the heart-felt feelings of someone with honest commendable national pride.



AUSTRALIAN COMMENTS:

It is exactly the same "DOWN UNDER" in that our culture is being destroyed not by militant & extreme Muslims but by our own politically correct "do gooders" who somehow have elected themselves to a position whereby they can create unwanted change under a cloak of anonimity.The silent majority is not apathetic but does not understand how to react to regain our lost position before it is too late.

WE, THE PEOPLE HAVE TO TAKE A STAND. WE HAVE TO DO WHAT IS NEEDED TO BE DONE, FOR OUR GOVERNMENT/S HAVE NO BACKBONE. THE GOODY-DO-GOODERS HAVE NEAR CRIPPLED THIS COUNTRY WITH SO MANY IDOTIC IDEAS, THAT THE COUNTRY IS DOOMED, UNLESS ACTION IS SOON TAKEN. IN 20 TO 25 YEARS OUR AUSTRALIA WILL BE NO LONGER. BELIEVE THAT OR NOT.. IT IS SO TRUE.

TOO GOOD TO JUST READ AND DELETE -- LET'S SATURATE NEW ZEALAND, AUSTRALIA, UK,
EUROPE, USA, CANADA AND THE REST OF THE FREE WORLD WITH THIS ONE!

MAY GOD BLESS THOSE WHO HAD THE COURAGE TO WRITE THE ABOVE AND MAY GOD
BLESS THOSE WHO READ AND PASS THIS ON AND MAY GOD BLESS THOSE WHO WILL HELP STOP THE INSANITY!


It is about time that governments and do gooders listened to what the majority of British/CANADAN/AUSTRALIAN citizens feel.



TMCTLT
  • TMCTLT
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
14 years ago



And your point is? This was not proven to be a falsehood nor is it vitriolic as your Snopes article would have you think. The article/ letter still is spot on in regards to the Muslim community not calling out the radicals that live / breath and enjoy the freedoms that Our country affords them. They know they're here and do nothing to flush them out nor denounce their radicalism.
mtbat21
14 years ago
🤔 Something to think about, their actions speak louder than words.
rfenst
14 years ago

And your point is? This was not proven to be a falsehood nor is it vitriolic as your Snopes article would have you think. The article/ letter still is spot on in regards to the Muslim community not calling out the radicals that live / breath and enjoy the freedoms that Our country affords them. They know they're here and do nothing to flush them out nor denounce their radicalism.

TMCTLT wrote:



They can denounce all they want. Think it will mean anything in terms of fear and concern? Isn't this still a country where our religious beliefs are private? What method and degree of renouncement will suffice to make people more comfortable? How does the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" fit into this? For the sake of discussion, what say you?
mtbat21
14 years ago
Innocence or guilt in a crime is left to a jury, but suspects are questioned in order to decide whether or not to procceed to trial, you can't do that if the "community" hides the suspects.
frankj1
14 years ago

Innocence or guilt in a crime is left to a jury, but suspects are questioned in order to decide whether or not to procceed to trial, you can't do that if the "community" hides the suspects.

mtbat21 wrote:


innocence is presumed. only guilt must be proven, thank G-d.
frankj1
14 years ago

They can denounce all they want. Think it will mean anything in terms of fear and concern? Isn't this still a country where our religious beliefs are private? What method and degree of renouncement will suffice to make people more comfortable? How does the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" fit into this? For the sake of discussion, what say you?

rfenst wrote:


I agree that no amount of renouncement by American Muslims will do much to alter thought processes in the minds of the public in this country, but I have hopes that a global public outcry from the international community of moderate Muslims (hopefully) majority might lead to minimizing the threat the radicals pose world wide. Regrettably, they are holding their tongues, maybe in fear of having them cut off!

Yes, I still firmly believe this is a country where religious beliefs should be respected, allowed, and private...and now is the classic time in which our lip service about rights is tested. Talking about "rights and freedoms" is easy during easy times, but does the talk hold up to the acid test? I hope so, I doubt it though.

Frank
rfenst
14 years ago

innocence is presumed. only guilt must be proven, thank G-d.

frankj1 wrote:




I just don't understand the comment you replied to.
frankj1
14 years ago

I just don't understand the comment you replied to.

rfenst wrote:


sorry, a few thoughts remained behind in my head. The short answer is technically juries only decide if guilt is proven. Guess that's pretty obvious.

But I was really responding to #6's response to your #5 questions. what was left unwritten was my constant fear of witch hunts and abandonment of our norms re rights and the legal system. many are only too willing to suspend protections when crises and fears are high, like the last decade. or like WWII and Japanese Americans being held...out the window goes the presumption of innocence and far too many are far too comfortable with that due to fears. It is a very real time of testing and I am not above that either.

I understand yet fear people being dragged in as suspects when what makes them suspicious is the way they look.

What did you think I meant?
HockeyDad
14 years ago

what was left unwritten was my constant fear of witch hunts and abandonment of our norms re rights and the legal system. many are only too willing to suspend protections when crises and fears are high, like the last decade. or like WWII and Japanese Americans being held...out the window goes the presumption of innocence and far too many are far too comfortable with that due to fears. It is a very real time of testing and I am not above that either.

I understand yet fear people being dragged in as suspects when what makes them suspicious is the way they look.

frankj1 wrote:




Oh come on......it works for Israel!
frankj1
14 years ago

Oh come on......it works for Israel!

HockeyDad wrote:


Sadly they really aren't the 51st state...yet. Ha.

I thought you'd be intrigued by my inclusion of Muslims in the population covered by our rights and freedoms. Contrary to what you think I believe, I am not ant-Islam.

Feels warm inside to be baited again, thanks.

Frank
TMCTLT
  • TMCTLT
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
14 years ago

I agree that no amount of renouncement by American Muslims will do much to alter thought processes in the minds of the public in this country, but I have hopes that a global public outcry from the international community of moderate Muslims (hopefully) majority might lead to minimizing the threat the radicals pose world wide. Regrettably, they are holding their tongues, maybe in fear of having them cut off!

Yes, I still firmly believe this is a country where religious beliefs should be respected, allowed, and private...and now is the classic time in which our lip service about rights is tested. Talking about "rights and freedoms" is easy during easy times, but does the talk hold up to the acid test? I hope so, I doubt it though.

Frank

frankj1 wrote:





I believe this as well, however when their rights are protected more strictly than others I have a REAL problem with that. And that is exactly the case in Dearborn, MI. when a group of christian students stood outside of a Muslim festival peacefully offering pamphlets to any one passing by. The video of the incident will clarify who's rights are being defended and whose are cast aside.


http://taralynnthompson.blogspot.com/2010/06/christians-arrested-in-michigan-for.html 
rfenst
14 years ago

What did you think I meant?

frankj1 wrote:



i understood what you ment, just not what mtbat21 wrote. What does it mean?
rfenst
14 years ago

Feels warm inside to be baited again, thanks.

frankj1 wrote:



A mere mortal would have taken the bait. HD would have pushed full throttle.
And then, who the hell knows where this thread would end up after another 20-25 posts!
HockeyDad
14 years ago
:-"


I like that what we fear happening here we encourage and fund happening elsewhere!
rfenst
14 years ago

I believe this as well, however when their rights are protected more strictly than others I have a REAL problem with that. And that is exactly the case in Dearborn, MI. when a group of christian students stood outside of a Muslim festival peacefully offering pamphlets to any one passing by. The video of the incident will clarify who's rights are being defended and whose are cast aside.


http://taralynnthompson.blogspot.com/2010/06/christians-arrested-in-michigan-for.html 

TMCTLT wrote:




The rights of religious freedom and the freedom to demonstrate in public by handing out pamphlets on public property- are two distinctly different rights. They were inappropriately combined in that video to insinuate that Dearborn is pro-Islam/anti-Christian and that Sharia, rather than U.S. law, is given preferential deference. Maybe that is the way things really are there, but that video does nothing to prove it.

The entire video- all the way to the point where the guy said he was finally far enough away from the festival to be in compliance- had nothing at all to do with his Christian message. Instead, it has to do with demonstrating in the right place and at the right time.

Both common sense and the law dictate that freedom to demonstrate by handing out pamphlets in a public place-is never absolute. It can be controlled or restricted whenever and wherever there is a compelling government interest and narrowly tailored/least restrictive means. I did not see the cops read or review the pamphlet contents. We didn't hear anything substantive stated by any of the officers about the pamphlet contents either. So, it doesn't look like anything shown in that video was pro-Arab or Muslim/anti-Christian- in any way at all.

Perhaps the pamphleteers should have just simply applied for a permit to stand there and express themselves- but we both know that is not what they wanted to do. Instead, they just wanted to show the police telling them to move elsewhere and twist it to mean something completely different. Kind of the exact same thing Michael Moore does so well to try to entertain people.

Now, I do agree that the reaction by the police and the number of officers immediately involved, came quick- almost spooky-quick, but that doesn't surprise me one bit when I think about it. It simply looked like a squad of officers assigned to make certain to protect a large crowd of fair-goers and others in a public place. Nothing wrong with that. To have done or planned otherwise would have been irresponsible.

The only thing possibly wrong was the officer blocking the camera lens. I do not know if that is legal or not, and have not really considered the matter- because there was never any complaint that sights or sounds were missed as a result of the officer's actions. Certainly, however, one can't claim it constituted censorship without first showing the officer knew the contents of the pamphlets.

The rest of the video shows three different people standing on three different Dearborn street corners, proclaiming they will be arrested at those corners because of the content of their pamphlets. This, in and of itself, does not make their proclamations to be true- no matter how many people do and say the exact same thing at as many different corners possible. Maybe, better put: "Just because they said so doesn't necessarily make it true." It very well may be true. They just didn't prove it.
frankj1
14 years ago

:-"


I like that what we fear happening here we encourage and fund happening elsewhere!

HockeyDad wrote:


I must be missing the giant news stories about Israel snagging Israeli citizens off the street because they meet "profiles" and the funding we expressly provide to do so. Robert is correct, so I will not enter a prolonged fruitless debate on such a claim about a foreign country.

But staying on topic, as a member of a people that has managed to survive similar repeated govenmentally encouraged actions. I object to it happening here for the simple reason that it is a very bad precedent. Who knows what group may be in power here in the future and who their idea of what constitutes a threat may comprise. If Muslims ever make up 60% of our government I would be against them pulling you in without any more reason than your skin and your version of the bible. I assume your support of me and mine in the same scenario.
frankj1
14 years ago

i understood what you ment, just not what mtbat21 wrote. What does it mean?

rfenst wrote:


hmm, not sure. But I hope it did not mean that the "community" should be hauled in for questioning.
TMCTLT
  • TMCTLT
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
14 years ago

The rights of religious freedom and the freedom to demonstrate in public by handing out pamphlets on public property- are two distinctly different rights. They were inappropriately combined in that video to insinuate that Dearborn is pro-Islam/anti-Christian and that Sharia, rather than U.S. law, is given preferential deference. Maybe that is the way things really are there, but that video does nothing to prove it.

The entire video- all the way to the point where the guy said he was finally far enough away from the festival to be in compliance- had nothing at all to do with his Christian message. Instead, it has to do with demonstrating in the right place and at the right time.

Both common sense and the law dictate that freedom to demonstrate by handing out pamphlets in a public place-is never absolute. It can be controlled or restricted whenever and wherever there is a compelling government interest and narrowly tailored/least restrictive means. I did not see the cops read or review the pamphlet contents. We didn't hear anything substantive stated by any of the officers about the pamphlet contents either. So, it doesn't look like anything shown in that video was pro-Arab or Muslim/anti-Christian- in any way at all.

Perhaps the pamphleteers should have just simply applied for a permit to stand there and express themselves- but we both know that is not what they wanted to do. Instead, they just wanted to show the police telling them to move elsewhere and twist it to mean something completely different. Kind of the exact same thing Michael Moore does so well to try to entertain people.

Now, I do agree that the reaction by the police and the number of officers immediately involved, came quick- almost spooky-quick, but that doesn't surprise me one bit when I think about it. It simply looked like a squad of officers assigned to make certain to protect a large crowd of fair-goers and others in a public place. Nothing wrong with that. To have done or planned otherwise would have been irresponsible.

The only thing possibly wrong was the officer blocking the camera lens. I do not know if that is legal or not, and have not really considered the matter- because there was never any complaint that sights or sounds were missed as a result of the officer's actions. Certainly, however, one can't claim it constituted censorship without first showing the officer knew the contents of the pamphlets.

The rest of the video shows three different people standing on three different Dearborn street corners, proclaiming they will be arrested at those corners because of the content of their pamphlets. This, in and of itself, does not make their proclamations to be true- no matter how many people do and say the exact same thing at as many different corners possible. Maybe, better put: "Just because they said so doesn't necessarily make it true." It very well may be true. They just didn't prove it.

rfenst wrote:




Rfenst, With all due respect sir it IS your profession who has manipulated and interpreted our Constitution for decades and turned this wonderful country into the abysmal mess that it is. I'm not at all surprised that this is how you see it. Those folks were doing nothing wrong other than proving that they have limited rights while others are defended. It wasn't a Mob....they weren't disrespectful or inciting trouble. The police had no problem gleaning as much information from the three as possible.....how much do they know of the folks they so vehemently defended. That being said I'd still like to meet you and smoke a cigar......
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