Dr Pepperhill
Monday, December 11, 2006 9:02:00 AM
Martin Luther King Jr was also well loved by his people, and assassinated in public. What conclusions can we draw from this grasshopper?
jetblasted
Monday, December 11, 2006 9:10:00 AM
topper7788
Monday, December 11, 2006 9:15:00 AM
Jet,

some people will say its just "propaganda"...

jbu
  • jbu
  • Herf-A-Holic
Monday, December 11, 2006 9:30:00 AM
MLK was not universally loved like Ghandhi.

The only reason Castro can parade like a peacock is because of intimidation and total lack of freedom.

According to your logic, the reason there has never been any joke ever published about Castro in Cuba must be that he is more revered than Prophet Mohammed

Fell like whipping you with my tool Nathaniel

jbu
  • jbu
  • Herf-A-Holic
Monday, December 11, 2006 9:31:00 AM
Topper,

And yet they will never see how they have been a victim of propoganda themselves.

jetblasted
Monday, December 11, 2006 9:51:00 AM
There is a Statue of Gandhi outside the MLK Center in Atlanta . . .
Dr Pepperhill
Monday, December 11, 2006 10:03:00 AM
Wow, people taking extreme positions here, reality generally lies somewhere in between.

Revered or hated leaders are either all devil or all angel, fools take the middle ground! ... poppycock.

Jet, your site is pretty bogus. It's like a Rush Limbaugh site for Miami dissidents, or a La Raza site for immigration issues. Just a tad biased, bad photoshops too.

jbu, wasn't long ago you cried about my attribution of false traits about you, yet you're twisting my words like a maid squeezing a wet rag.

In post #81 I said MLK was "well loved" by "his people." You know who his people were don't you? Dark Americans battling for civil rights. You try and say I said he was "universally loved." Naaaa, I don't think so partner.

Then you go further into perplexing reflexivity by saying "The only reason Castro can parade like a peacock is because of intimidation and total lack of freedom." No, you don't understand statistics. A million pissed off people are stronger than lots & lots of money, hence why Castro & Chavez can go lolli gag around with the unwashed masses, and why people like Bush, Saddam, & Tony Blair do not & will not. You can't billy-club a million people all at once, it's statistically impossible. I backed my claim that Castro rubbed **** with the plebes with credible citations ... where's your proof to the contrary? Next issue.

"According to your logic ... Castro ... is more revered than Prophet Mohammed." Again, your words, not mine. In post 31 I state my opinion that Cuba is a pissy little island nation of squalor, and (by implication) that Castro is a tinhorn fatigues wearing big mouth. That's my claim, and moreover that Castro has balls and told powerful US interests to flip off ... and lived; which I find amazing.

Also, please remember, an observation of the way things are is not necessarily an endorsement by the observer of the way things should be, it's just an observation.

If you want FabNat dial 1-800-BLOSPAN

topper7788
Monday, December 11, 2006 10:07:00 AM
JBU,

It is hard to explain to anyone outside of S. Florida how the Cuban's think, and harder still to explain to a Cuban how the world north of West Palm Beach thinks.

I remember during the Elian thing trying to explain to my co-workers that nobody but the Cubans in Miami believed Elian should stay here. They did not and did not want to understand. There belief was he was better off here, there hatred of Fidel in their mind superceded the father's wishs. Of course in their defense was it really the father wish, or was it pressure brought to bear on him by the Cuban gocernement..

They also could not fathom that it was only a big deal in S. Florida and that basically nobody North of WPB no one gave a sh*t...

topper7788
Monday, December 11, 2006 10:11:00 AM
Doc,

Yes the site is set up by the refugee community, but do you not think the pictures and stories are accurate? (THEY ARE) DO you not believe that the average Cuban in Cuba lives in a state that would be below the poverty level, a hamburger would be a "special" treat savored by a Cuban...

Sorry, I get on my hi horse on this subject as I lived it for 25 years...

jetblasted
Monday, December 11, 2006 10:17:00 AM
Post 88 and 89 are Right On . . .

That Site is Biased as Hell . . . and the photoshops are very amatuer . . . But look past that at the real meaning and it becomes crystal clear . . .

Dr Pepperhill
Monday, December 11, 2006 10:31:00 AM
Topper I lived in the carribean for awhile (not in Cuba), and no, I don't think castro is mother theresa or that all cubans live in mansions. Those are dumb expectations.

Sure Castro has enemies. Read my posts; I'm saying it's amazing the old buzzard made it to the bitter end. I have no personal investment one way or another. I would like to see the supid-a**ed embargo end however.

I'm not a great lover or savior for the Cuban people, but a big part of the reason they're so screwed is because of the embargo itself, and their proximity to their would be major trading partner, the United States. The Cuban embargo is in place because of reactionary old US interests, and the obstinacy of the Castro regime. It's always the people who suffer. If it's politics you want, lets end that stupid embargo and start trading with Cuba again so we bourgeois Americans can soak up some Cuban sol (& cubanas), & so Cubans can spend Christmas in Miami with uncle Raul & tia Juana.

People get so caught up in sh*t they start talking it.

Cuba was once a threat with the Societ Union & its nukes. It's over, the Berlin wall has fallen, perestroika happened, Cuba's no longer a threat, let's open up, bomb them with capitalist fast food franchises and sail into the new millenium. Extremists on both sides are idiots, why are people so eager to swallow & follow idiots ... because they gots money, that's why.

I think we can all agree that flowers is purdy though.

jbu
  • jbu
  • Herf-A-Holic
Monday, December 11, 2006 10:33:00 AM
I dunno, fabnat has a certain underlying dissolute sophistication that points in a certain direction. Maybe I just have a hard-on for him.

There have been ample situations where millions were duped. If that’s your fundamental point, you don’t need me to tell you otherwise. Because you wont believe. Its like the Holocaust, ample have proof that it never happened.

Anyway, you were right about something significant in this thread, you generalized a psyche that was against authority and in general rebellious and politically polarized along class lines. Fidel and that muthafuca Che used this to their advantage, as they were the elites.

So what is the reason that there is no form of levity against Fidel in Cuba? I would just like your explanation.

Topper,

Like I said, folks with their heads in the sand like to believe that Cubans prefer technology that is at least 50 years old and they choose to live poor because they love Fidel. Their knowlege and true empathay towards the world is breathtaking!! Like a kid that wants to defend his superhero and refuses to believe that its fictional.

jbu
  • jbu
  • Herf-A-Holic
Monday, December 11, 2006 10:37:00 AM
The embargo is against America. Which you support because you said, you admire Castro for standing up to us imperials.

They can still trade with the rest of the world. Why dont you see any new russian cars on the streets of havana?

Dr Pepperhill
Monday, December 11, 2006 10:41:00 AM
Oh I believe Toto, I believe. Actually I prefer credible citation over the smell of farts. Cuba was a holocaust alright, for Bautista; who I hope will rot in hell along side your beloved Pinochet; another elite fighter for freedom & decency according to the holy scriptures.

& WTF is "a form of levity against Castro!?" Didn't you see Jet's site?

tia Juana ... more delicious sangria por favor!

jbu
  • jbu
  • Herf-A-Holic
Monday, December 11, 2006 11:14:00 AM
Get a grip my good man, you are needlessly shriveling up.

This is a not a duel between us, just simple question and answers.

You are going into the dark corner of the room and I am not the one that sent you there.

Jets site may be a tad bit emotional, but rightfully so.

Here is a great paragraph from the wiki encyclo. (which incidentally sheds some light on the source of your hallucination)

As early as 1965, the Yugoslav communist journal Borba observed the many half-completed or empty factories in Cuba, a legacy of Guevara's tenure as Minister of Industries, "standing like sad memories of the conflict between pretension and reality".[79]

The Cuban state continued to cultivate Guevara’s cult of personality, constructing numerous statues and artworks in his honor throughout the land; adorning school rooms, workplaces, public buildings, billboards, and money with his image.[80] Children across the country begin each school day with the chant "¡Pioneros por el Comunismo, Seremos como el Che!" (English: Pioneers for Communism, We will be like Che!). Guevara's mausoleum in Santa Clara has become a site of almost religious significance to many Cubans,[73] while the nation’s burgeoning tourist industry has benefited greatly from the ongoing international interest in Guevara's life. Some 205,832 people visited the mausoleum during 2004, of whom 127,597 were foreigners.

Reverence among Cubans for Guevara's memory is by no means universal. Many Cuban exiles have spoken of Guevara in less than favorable terms, and he is remembered by some as the "The Butcher of la Cabaña", a reference to Guevara’s post-revolutionary role as “supreme prosecutor” at the Cabana fortress. The epithet was repeated by Cuban-born musician Paquito D'Rivera, who wrote an open letter castigating fellow musician Carlos Santana, for wearing a T-shirt displaying Guevara’s image to the 2005 Academy Awards ceremony.[81] Similar sentiments have been shared by Cuban-American actor and director Andy Garcia, who stated in 2004 that "Che has been romanticized over the years, but there is a darker side to his story. He looks like a rock star, but he executed a lot of people without trial or defense."[82] Garcia’s 2005 film The Lost City, which was reportedly banned in several Latin American countries, portrayed a ruthless brutality at the heart of the Cuban revolution.[83] Actor Jsu Garcia as Guevara is shown casually shooting wounded Batista foot soldiers where they lie.[84]

The "Cult of Che"

Despite the controversies, Guevara's status as a popular icon has continued throughout the world, leading commentators to speak of a global "cult of Che". A photograph of Guevara taken by photographer Alberto Korda[85] has became one of the century's most ubiquitous images, and the portrait, transformed into a monochrome graphic, is reproduced endlessly on a vast array of merchandise, such as T-shirts, posters, coffee mugs, and baseball caps.[86] The image had been likened to a global brand, long since shedding its ideological or political connotations, and the obsession with Guevara has been dismissed by some as merely "adolescent revolutionary romanticism".[73] In addition, political writer Paul Berman asserts that the "modern-day cult of Che" obscures the work of dissidents and what he believes is a "tremendous social struggle" currently taking place in Cuba. [87] Author Christopher Hitchens, a supporter of the Cuban revolution in the 1960s, summarised Guevara's legacy thus: "Che's iconic status was assured because he failed, His story was one of defeat and isolation, and that's why it is so seductive. Had he lived, the myth of Che would have long since died." [73]

jbu
  • jbu
  • Herf-A-Holic
Monday, December 11, 2006 11:17:00 AM
DP,

Am I correct in believing that, You don’t like to believe that you could be wrong

Dr Pepperhill
Monday, December 11, 2006 11:23:00 AM
Yep, it's a jungle out there, got to gird your loins & guard your flanks; but I could be wrong.
jbu
  • jbu
  • Herf-A-Holic
Monday, December 11, 2006 11:48:00 AM
No, There is a greater likelihood that everyone else on this thread is wrong.

jetblasted
Monday, December 11, 2006 12:03:00 PM
Post 88 and 89 are Right On . . .
jetblasted
Monday, December 11, 2006 12:03:00 PM
100 . . .