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Well Ferguson is getting a little out of hand....
victor809 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/08/14/340315497/tear-gas-and-arrests-ferguson-police-and-protesters-face-off

Tear gas and rubber bullets used liberally...
Apparently they gassed the Al Jezeera journalists as they were setting up their cameras...
They're demanding ID from journalists taking photos.

A bit of a mess....
DrafterX Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
Obama's gonna fix it.... Mellow
opelmanta1900 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
first off, tear gassing Al Jezeera journalists as they're setting up their cameras is standard protocol for most police departments... I don't know where you live buddy, but get with the times...

second, this city is full of people acting like animals... I don't blame the cops for doing what they're doing... the alternative is to allow the city to be over run with criminal mischief and let innocent people get hurt...
victor809 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
While any protest has a possibility of individuals acting out of control, my understanding is that after the first night (where things did get out of control) the police are taking a "shoot first, then check to see if they're going to commit a crime" stance. This really isn't acceptable for anywhere in america.

Sh#t... the way they're armed, they can afford to be a little more conservative. Things get hot, just fall back to the armored military vehicles.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
victor809 wrote:

Sh#t... the way they're armed, they can afford to be a little more conservative. Things get hot, just fall back to the armored military vehicles.


and let all the innocent bystanders get hurt and properties get looted and damaged?
HockeyDad Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,135
They could fall back and just defend the white neighborhoods. Wait....that probably wouldn't help the situation.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Racist!
victor809 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
opelmanta1900 wrote:
and let all the innocent bystanders get hurt and properties get looted and damaged?


Generally in the US, we only start tear gassing and shooting rubber bullets into crowds AFTER a crime (looting and damaging) begins. Not usually before the crime starts.

Sh$t... otherwise I'll just start shooting everyone on the street. Preemptive, I thought they were gonna mug me maybe.
ZRX1200 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,615

Tin soldiers and Obamas coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
One dead in Missouri.

Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are cutting us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her
And found him dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?

Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are cutting us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew him
And found him dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?

Tin soldiers and Obamas coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
One dead in Missouri.
victor809 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
HockeyDad wrote:
They could fall back and just defend the white neighborhoods. Wait....that probably wouldn't help the situation.



http://instagram.com/p/rq9aHsiruj/

They shot a white woman. Sh#t just got real. ;)
opelmanta1900 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
victor809 wrote:
Generally in the US, we only start tear gassing and shooting rubber bullets into crowds AFTER a crime (looting and damaging) begins. Not usually before the crime starts.

Sh$t... otherwise I'll just start shooting everyone on the street. Preemptive, I thought they were gonna mug me maybe.


oh to see the world through your politically correct, blind-to-all-logic glasses...

If someone is beating the sh*t out of you, then they stop for a minute to catch their breathe but they tell you their done... but they're still standing right there... they're not walking away from you... would you assume they're suddenly being upright truthful citizen who would never do anything to hurt you? You would, wouldn't you Victor?
victor809 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
opelmanta1900 wrote:
oh to see the world through your politically correct, blind-to-all-logic glasses...

If someone is beating the sh*t out of you, then they stop for a minute to catch their breathe but they tell you their done... but they're still standing right there... they're not walking away from you... would you assume they're suddenly being upright truthful citizen who would never do anything to hurt you? You would, wouldn't you Victor?


While I might be politically correct, I'm certainly not blind to logic.

Why do you assume it's the same people?
There are people protesting peacefully. There were some people looting/vandalizing the first day. While there may be some criminals in the pool of peaceful protesters, there also may not be.

Honestly, this is what I believe makes policework so dangerous. Unlike military action, police action is supposed to operate in a manner that gives law abiding citizens freedom to assemble and freedom to go about their daily lives. YES it increases the risk to the police officers. But if you really think teargassing peaceful protests is a good solution because they might loot and vandalize later, then you should probably go to Boston and shelter in place.
HockeyDad Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,135
victor809 wrote:
http://instagram.com/p/rq9aHsiruj/

They shot a white woman. Sh#t just got real. ;)



Well they'll probably investigate that.
TMCTLT Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
http://instagram.com/p/rq9aHsiruj/

They shot a white woman. Sh#t just got real. ;)




Who's they?

Quick question Victor, why is it that the black community SEEMS to be the only ones who behave this way when one of theirs is killed by a " white guy " let alone a LEO? A cpl yrs back we had three individuals on motorcycles sitting @ a red light and were mowed down by a drunk IPD officer...one killed immediately two seriously injured for many months or longer. YET....there wasn't a bunch of Harley riders or anyone for that matter calling in death threats....blowing **** up...looting store fronts, did they Peacefully assemble and demand justice?...YES and even though it seemed like IPD was dragging their feet in getting to the bottom of it to my knowledge NOONE took the Law into their own hands!!
it seems they're NOT willing to let the facts come out before turning to violence. My understanding is this IS and has been a Hotbead for violence for some time.....sadly
opelmanta1900 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
victor809 wrote:
While I might be politically correct, I'm certainly not blind to logic.

Why do you assume it's the same people?
There are people protesting peacefully. There were some people looting/vandalizing the first day. While there may be some criminals in the pool of peaceful protesters, there also may not be.

Honestly, this is what I believe makes policework so dangerous. Unlike military action, police action is supposed to operate in a manner that gives law abiding citizens freedom to assemble and freedom to go about their daily lives. YES it increases the risk to the police officers. But if you really think teargassing peaceful protests is a good solution because they might loot and vandalize later, then you should probably go to Boston and shelter in place.


I know you're not blind to logic victor...

I just got attacked by a freaking moth right as I typed that... call off your minions victor!

ok, seriously though, I don't believe tear gassing peaceful pro-teste's is the way to go, but if you're not obeying police orders to disperse, you're not being peaceful anymore...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
TMCTLT wrote:
Who's they?

Quick question Victor, why is it that the black community SEEMS to be the only ones who behave this way when one of theirs is killed by a " white guy " let alone a LEO? A cpl yrs back we had three individuals on motorcycles sitting @ a red light and were mowed down by a drunk IPD officer...one killed immediately two seriously injured for many months or longer. YET....there wasn't a bunch of Harley riders or anyone for that matter calling in death threats....blowing **** up...looting store fronts, did they Peacefully assemble and demand justice?...YES and even though it seemed like IPD was dragging their feet in getting to the bottom of it to my knowledge NOONE took the Law into their own hands!!
it seems they're NOT willing to let the facts come out before turning to violence. My understanding is this IS and has been a Hotbead for violence for some time.....sadly


white people know they will get justice... the poor black community have had it ingrained into their minds that they will not get justice...
victor809 Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
TMCTLT wrote:
Who's they?
The police... duh. They're shooting rubber bullets into the crowd of people doing some dumb prayer protest.

Quote:

Quick question Victor, why is it that the black community SEEMS to be the only ones who behave this way when one of theirs is killed by a " white guy " let alone a LEO? A cpl yrs back we had three individuals on motorcycles sitting @ a red light and were mowed down by a drunk IPD officer...one killed immediately two seriously injured for many months or longer. YET....there wasn't a bunch of Harley riders or anyone for that matter calling in death threats....blowing **** up...looting store fronts, did they Peacefully assemble and demand justice?...YES and even though it seemed like IPD was dragging their feet in getting to the bottom of it to my knowledge NOONE took the Law into their own hands!!
it seems they're NOT willing to let the facts come out before turning to violence. My understanding is this IS and has been a Hotbead for violence for some time.....sadly


Opel wrote:

white people know they will get justice... the poor black community have had it ingrained into their minds that they will not get justice...


combine that with frequency... I've run across (randomly run across, not looking for it) 3 incidents just this week of unarmed black men shot by the police.
Brown in Ferguson
Crawford in Ohio http://newsone.com/3042992/john-crawford-ohio-police-walmart/ (he was in a walmart holding one of the toys and talking on his phone). 2nd amendment protesters walk into target with real guns and don't get shot by police.
Ford in LA http://ktla.com/2014/08/12/man-hospitalized-after-being-shot-by-police-in-south-l-a/ Sounds like there had been a prior struggle. But he was on the ground when shot.

Seriously... I generally give police the benefit of the doubt. The job is seriously hard, and you never know where your problem is going to come from. But this is a little out of control.
tailgater Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
opelmanta1900 wrote:


If someone is beating the sh*t out of you, then they stop for a minute to catch their breathe but they tell you their done... but they're still standing right there... they're not walking away from you... would you assume they're suddenly being upright truthful citizen who would never do anything to hurt you?


Sounds like the argument that the mob crowd is using against law enforcement.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,444
Is this a Georgetown moment?
tailgater Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Obama is silent because he's confused.

On the one hand, I'm sure he feels the police acted stupidly.
On the other, that dead dude don't look nothing like Trayvon, so he couldn't be the big O's son.

tailgater Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:

I've run across (randomly run across, not looking for it) 3 incidents just this week of unarmed black men shot by the police.


3?
Unarmed?

What are the odds???




mikey1597 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 05-18-2007
Posts: 14,162
Over the course of the George Zimmerman trial (June 10-July 13, 2013), 54 people were killed in gunshot homicides in Chicago -- all but four of them males.



Any of those stories make the national news?
TMCTLT Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
opelmanta1900 wrote:
white people know they will get justice... the poor black community have had it ingrained into their minds that they will not get justice...




Ingrained by who? Al? Jesse? IT.... (justice ) doen't always happen as fast as any of us would like do you think?
I do however beleive THIS particular Dept. seems a bit in a hurry to ALSO use violence...Shame on themShame on you
teedubbya Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
If these folks were letting their cattle eat chips for free at the quick trip we would all be applauding them for resisting the force being applied by johnny law.
TMCTLT Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
teedubbya wrote:
If these folks were letting their cattle eat chips for free at the quick trip we would all be applauding them for resisting the force being applied by johnny law.




Let's TRY to stay On Topic shall we?
victor809 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
TMCTLT wrote:

I do however beleive THIS particular Dept. seems a bit in a hurry to ALSO use violence...Shame on themShame on you


Sh%t.... are we agreeing on something?
teedubbya Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
TMCTLT wrote:
Let's TRY to stay On Topic shall we?



nope. it was very much on topic. you just don't like it.

But you did post this while I was typing so good on you

TMCTLT wrote:
I do however beleive THIS particular Dept. seems a bit in a hurry to ALSO use violence...Shame on themShame on you
victor809 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
mikey1597 wrote:
Over the course of the George Zimmerman trial (June 10-July 13, 2013), 54 people were killed in gunshot homicides in Chicago -- all but four of them males.



Any of those stories make the national news?


Of course not. But that's a basic homicide. People get shot daily everywhere.

What we don't expect generally is for the police department to shoot us.

I'd be curious what the statistics are for unarmed whites vs. unarmed blacks shot by the cops during an arrest.
teedubbya Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Ordering reporters to stop filming, no fly rule to keep helecopters out, using outdated ammo (wood) and denying it until reporters show them the pellets), very aggressive stance including fairly heavy armor and cammo (wtf?), arresting journalists in mcdonalds for not getting out fast enough (then releasing them when the police chief says WTF?), refusing to identify themselves or their badges..... Shooting into crowds that are not looting or getting violent


dolts are dolts for jacking up their own neighborhood (****tin in their mess kit) but I think we are seeing the arrogant culture of the police department and perhaps why the powder keg exists in the first place.
teedubbya Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Gov "Nixon, for his part, said he would be making changes to help change the tone in the community, but he did not say what they would be. But he said it was crucial to allow protesters to express their anger so long as they respect the rights of others.

"We will not get the healing that we all need if the only response from the public is, 'Y'all just be quiet,' " he said."
ZRX1200 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,615
So teedubya thinks we'd all be happy if black people ate grass.
DrafterX Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
That's how I took it..... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
ZRX1200 wrote:
So teedubya thinks we'd all be happy if black people ate grass.



you say that as if there is something wrong with that
victor809 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
teedubbya wrote:
If these folks were letting their cattle eat chips for free at the quick trip we would all be applauding them for resisting the force being applied by johnny law.


But NOT if the cattle were drinking key lime sparkling water without paying for it. That's just NOT acceptable behavior.
TMCTLT Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
Sh%t.... are we agreeing on something?



You'll get NO argument from me on the topic of many LEO agencies using Too Much Force on the citizenry across this country, question IS....how do we reighn them in? In my estimation NOT until more Police Cheifs and Mayors get past thinking that protecting their Dept's "good name " is first course of business....this **** will continue. Brick wall
teedubbya Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Department of Defense provided surplus military vehicles, rifles, pistols to local police departments.


UPDATE: St. Louis County law enforcement agencies received twelve 5.56 millimeter rifles and six .45 caliber pistols from the Department of Defense between Aug. 2, 2010, and Feb. 13, 2013, a Missouri public safety official confirmed Thursday. Ferguson, Mo., is within St. Louis County. The Pentagon allows information on "tactical" equipment to be released only at a county level, so which police department(s) in the county received the weaponry is not available.

Pentagon fueled Ferguson Confrontation

The Pentagon might not have boots on the ground in Ferguson, Mo., where 18-year-old Michael Brown was shot by police on Saturday, but it does have wheels on the street.

Michelle McCaskill, media relations chief at the Defense Logistics Agency, confirms that the Ferguson Police Department is part of a federal program called 1033 that distributes hundreds of millions of dollars of surplus military equipment to civilian police forces across the United States. The materials range from small items, such as pistols and automatic rifles, to heavy armored vehicles such as the MRAPs used in Afghanistan and Iraq.


USATODAY

Police forces pick up surplus military supplies


"In 2013 alone, $449,309,003.71 worth of property was transferred to law enforcement," the agency's website states.

According to McCaskill, the most recent transfer of military equipment from the Department of Defense to small Ferguson was in November and included two vehicles as well as a trailer and a generator. Details on the vehicles and their intended uses have not been released by the Pentagon. Information on any prior transfers is also unavailable.

USATODAY


A state public safety official told USA TODAY that the Pentagon does not allow detailed information on "tactical" equipment to be released at a police force level, only at a county level. According to a document provided by the official, police forces in the same county as Ferguson received advanced rifle sights and night vision equipment between 2012 and 2014.

There is no evidence that any such equipment has yet been used in the Brown case and its aftermath. But such "police militarization" is just one element of an often toxic relationship between minority communities and local police.

Since the creation of the 1033 program by Congress in the early 1990s, the program has distributed $4.3 billion of excess equipment, ranging from innocuous office supplies to bomb-disposing robots and other advanced technology. The flood of military supplies — along with the continuing drug war and grant programs from other federal agencies that provide military-style equipment — has pushed the culture of police forces far from its law-enforcement roots.

Indeed, the motto of the 1033 program is "From Warfighter to Crimefighter."

So it is not a surprise that police officers often seem prepared for war. In Ferguson, that change is most dramatically revealed in the images of camouflage-wearing police officers with assault rifles, body armor and multiple extra magazines facing unarmed protesters with their hands preemptively raised in the air.

The disturbing trend of police militarization permits law enforcement agencies to view people in their communities as threats, rather than as citizens with rights, reports TheWashington Post's Radley Balko, who has covered the militarization of the police extensively.

Elsewhere in Missouri, agencies participating in the 1033 program have acquired "aircraft (both fixed wing and rotary) and four-wheel drive vehicles (such as pickup trucks, blazers, ambulances and armored personnel carriers)," according to the state's Department of Public Safety.

If there's one thing a community in turmoil does not need is for anyone to turn up the heat as protesters and police face off and tempers simmer. But before a local police officer fired his first shot at the unarmed teen, the U.S. military helped make sure there was plenty of fuel to bring things to a boil.
dstieger Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
victor809 wrote:


I'd be curious what the statistics are for unarmed whites vs. unarmed blacks shot by the cops during an arrest.


Me, too.

I'd love to see a thorough data set and analysis, however. Very easy to spin it. Would need to know race of the shooter cop each time, also. What about the race of his/her partner? Factor? Then, I suppose, we'd need to know those numbers as a ratio of ALL arrests (and stops?) - with comparison of the race of all involved in every case. For example, if the statistics bear it out, to report that more 'unarmed blacks are shot by white cops' than all unarmed whites that are shot could prove to be true, but inflammatory - especially if, for example 51% of all felony stops turn out to involve black suspects and white cops. Statistics would be instructive, but potentially dangerous, too.


And if stats prove a problem, what then? Is a white cop more likely to feel threatened by an unarmed black male than any other suspect? If so, why? Social/personal bias and/or prejudice? Rational fear? Or, simply bias/racist 'emotions' run amok that have nothing to do with threat, fear or reality? Get the answers wrong and the future 'solutions' could prove to be useless. I think we're still a lot of years from having honest, productive conversations about race in this country. I'd like for it to happen, but I can't help but think every single person who claims lack of bias or prejudice is lying either to themselves or to us or both.
victor809 Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
dstieger wrote:
Me, too.

I'd love to see a thorough data set and analysis, however. Very easy to spin it. Would need to know race of the shooter cop each time, also. What about the race of his/her partner? Factor? Then, I suppose, we'd need to know those numbers as a ratio of ALL arrests (and stops?) - with comparison of the race of all involved in every case. For example, if the statistics bear it out, to report that more 'unarmed blacks are shot by white cops' than all unarmed whites that are shot could prove to be true, but inflammatory - especially if, for example 51% of all felony stops turn out to involve black suspects and white cops. Statistics would be instructive, but potentially dangerous, too.


And if stats prove a problem, what then? Is a white cop more likely to feel threatened by an unarmed black male than any other suspect? If so, why? Social/personal bias and/or prejudice? Rational fear? Or, simply bias/racist 'emotions' run amok that have nothing to do with threat, fear or reality? Get the answers wrong and the future 'solutions' could prove to be useless. I think we're still a lot of years from having honest, productive conversations about race in this country. I'd like for it to happen, but I can't help but think every single person who claims lack of bias or prejudice is lying either to themselves or to us or both.


Oh I agree. The stats simply don't exist at this time (I tried looking). More interestingly, you assume that black cops would have different stats than white cops. Not sure that's true. I could be wrong, but I seem to remember a story about blacks being targeted as suspects by both white and black police. But I could be wrong on that (I'd have to look it up).

More interestingly, there was a study that showed people in general were more likely to assume (under time pressure) that black suspects were armed and "shoot" them:
http://scienceblogs.com/cognitivedaily/2009/07/21/shooting-unarmed-suspects-a-ma-1/

The fun part of this is that increased training apparently reduces this bias. Perhaps what we're seeing overall is an effect of police departments expanding too quickly and not having the necessary firearm/simulation training to compensate.
teedubbya Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
All cut and paste from time.com

Anyone who thinks race does not skew the application of criminal justice in this country is just not paying close enough attention, Sen. Rand Paul writes for TIME, amid violence in Ferguson, Mo. over the police shooting death of Michael Brown

The shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown is an awful tragedy that continues to send shockwaves through the community of Ferguson, Missouri and across the nation.

If I had been told to get out of the street as a teenager, there would have been a distinct possibility that I might have smarted off. But, I wouldn’t have expected to be shot.

The outrage in Ferguson is understandable—though there is never an excuse for rioting or looting. There is a legitimate role for the police to keep the peace, but there should be a difference between a police response and a military response.

The images and scenes we continue to see in Ferguson resemble war more than traditional police action.

Glenn Reynolds, in Popular Mechanics, recognized the increasing militarization of the police five years ago. In 2009 he wrote:


Soldiers
and police are supposed to be different. … Police look inward. They’re supposed to protect their fellow citizens from criminals, and to maintain order with a minimum of force.

It’s the difference between Audie Murphy and Andy Griffith. But nowadays, police are looking, and acting, more like soldiers than cops, with bad consequences. And those who suffer the consequences are usually innocent civilians.

The Cato Institute’s Walter Olson observed this week how the rising militarization of law enforcement is currently playing out in Ferguson:


Why armored vehicles in a Midwestern inner suburb? Why would cops wear camouflage gear against a terrain patterned by convenience stores and beauty parlors? Why are the authorities in Ferguson, Mo. so given to quasi-martial crowd control methods (such as bans on walking on the street) and, per the reporting of Riverfront Times, the firing of tear gas at people in their own yards? (“‘This my property!’ he shouted, prompting police to fire a tear gas canister directly at his face.”) Why would someone identifying himself as an 82nd Airborne Army veteran, observing
the Ferguson police scene, comment that “We rolled lighter than that in an actual warzone”?

Olson added, “the dominant visual aspect of the story, however, has been the sight of overpowering police forces confronting unarmed protesters who are seen waving signs or just their hands.”

How did this happen?

Most police officers are good cops and good people. It is an unquestionably difficult job, especially in the current circumstances.

There is a systemic problem with today’s law enforcement.

Not surprisingly, big government has been at the heart of the problem. Washington has incentivized the militarization of local police precincts by using federal dollars to help municipal governments build what are essentially small armies—where police departments compete to acquire military gear that goes far beyond what most of Americans think of as law enforcement.

This is usually done in the name of fighting the war on drugs or terrorism. The Heritage Foundation’s Evan Bernick wrote in 2013 that, “the Department of Homeland Security has handed out anti-terrorism grants to cities and towns across the country, enabling them to buy armored vehicles, guns, armor, aircraft, and other equipment.”

Bernick continued, “federal agencies of all stripes, as well as local police departments in towns with populations less than 14,000, come equipped with SWAT teams and heavy artillery.”

Bernick noted the cartoonish imbalance between the equipment some police departments possess and the constituents they serve, “today, Bossier Parish, Louisiana, has a .50 caliber gun mounted on an armored vehicle. The Pentagon gives away millions of pieces of military equipment to police departments across the country—tanks included.”

When you couple this militarization of law enforcement with an erosion of civil liberties and due process that allows the police to become judge and jury—national security letters, no-knock searches, broad general warrants, pre-conviction forfeiture—we begin to have a very serious problem on our hands.

Given these developments, it is almost impossible for many Americans not to feel like their government is targeting them. Given the racial disparities in our criminal justice system, it is impossible for African-Americans not to feel like their government is particularly targeting them.

This is part of the anguish we are seeing in the tragic events outside of St. Louis, Missouri. It is what the citizens of Ferguson feel when there is an unfortunate and heartbreaking shooting like the incident with Michael Brown.

Anyone who thinks that race does not still, even if inadvertently, skew the application of criminal justice in this country is just not paying close enough attention. Our prisons are full of black and brown men and women who are serving inappropriately long and harsh sentences for non-violent mistakes in their youth.

The militarization of our law enforcement is due to an unprecedented expansion of government power in this realm. It is one thing for federal officials to work in conjunction with local authorities to reduce or solve crime. It is quite another for them to subsidize it.

Americans must never sacrifice their liberty for an illusive and dangerous, or false, security. This has been a cause I have championed for years, and one that is at a near-crisis point in our country.

Let us continue to pray for Michael Brown’s family, the people of Ferguson, police, and citizens alike.

Paul is the junior U.S. Senator for Kentucky.
victor809 Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
http://defiant.ssc.uwo.ca/undergraduate/psych2720/the%20police%20officer's%20dilemma.pdf

Original study of race bias.
jetblasted Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
Seems like the military did drills in the streets outside of St. Louis a couple of years ago.

Practice for using the billion bullets barack bought?

TMCTLT Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
EXTREMELY well written piece by Senator Paul
HockeyDad Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,135
If they deploy Tony Stewart things could get much worse for the protesters.
DrafterX Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
he's gonna need a bigger car.... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
he's gonna need a bigger car.... Mellow


They've got those "police" armored troop transports. I'm sure he could make due.
dstieger Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
HockeyDad wrote:
If they deploy Tony Stewart things could get much worse for the protesters.


Is that because the unarmed 'pedestrian' he struck was wearing a BLACK jumpsuit?
snowwolf777 Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 06-03-2000
Posts: 4,082
victor809 wrote:
http://instagram.com/p/rq9aHsiruj/

They shot a white woman. Sh#t just got real. ;)



Well now the police just acted stupidly. Time for a wine cooler summit.
Abrignac Online
#48 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,278
victor809 wrote:
Of course not. But that's a basic homicide. People get shot daily everywhere.

What we don't expect generally is for the police department to shoot us.

I'd be curious what the statistics are for unarmed whites vs. unarmed blacks shot by the cops during an arrest.




It would be interesting. I wonder if it would be statistically the same as the number of blacks arrested verses the number of whites arrested.
snowwolf777 Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 06-03-2000
Posts: 4,082
Al Not-So-Sharpton is on the scene now. All 106 pounds of him. It-a-be-alright in about a minute.

jetblasted Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
Of course we don't expect the police to start shooting pedestrians ... But according to eye witnesses, the police rolled up, jumped out of the car spraying automatic gun fire indiscriminately.

Funny how stories like this start. Even the bleeding heart huff post reporter crying she got arrested for no reason. But the truth of the matter is she was ordered out of the restaurant & she refused.

Now none of us know exactly what happened, but general accounts are that the kid stole merchandise from the gas station, there was a scuffle in the car, cop orders the guy to stop, he ran & got shot dead. Basically that's how it seems to have happened in a nutshell. Probably a few details left out, probably things should have been done differently. But if a cop rolled up on me and ordered me to stop, I wouldn't have started a fight with the cop & I wouldn't have run. Dying for a pack of stolen gum just doesn't seem worth it. Even if it was someone I knew that happened to him, I would not go stealing tires in show of solidarity.

Speaking of Al Sharpton ... I saw him not too long ago at the airport. Since he's lost all that weight he just looks odd. Almost like a bobble-head toy.
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