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frankj1 Offline
#51 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 10:09 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
JadeRose wrote:
I didn't say to not let them march. Let em. I'd rather evil be in front of me than hidden.

YES!
8trackdisco Offline
#52 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 10:15 AM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,084
JadeRose wrote:
Or......move the MLK signs to the whitest part of town instead of putting them in the poorest ghettos to appease the people that live there and then try to ease the poverty and hopelessness of those ghettos.

In the same vein, we could move the REL statues and the Stars and Bars flags to trailer parks and NASCAR tracks. No one would care about that.

But...we could do it your way, too


MLK was a man of peace and hope. The thought initially was to put signs up in the neighborhoods of the people he represented. He was the beacon of light he wanted his people to follow. I'm sure he'd be disappointed in them.

If you don't take an active role in your education, start drug dealing in middle school, and spending your time trying to be a hardashe, you're never going to get out of the hopelesss ghetto or a southern Indiana trailer park.

The only question left when the second american revolution happens, is whether it all be based on race or class.
JadeRose Offline
#53 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 10:19 AM EST
Joined: 05-15-2008
Posts: 19,525
I completely agree with this
Speyside Offline
#54 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 10:23 AM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
8, that's a good question. Jade, yes, I would rather the evil is in plain sight. Also, you point about them being terrorists is very valid.
frankj1 Offline
#55 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 10:23 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
...in his comments, Trump condemned the bloody protests, but he did not specifically criticize the white nationalist rally and its neo-Nazi slogans beyond blaming "hatred, bigotry, and violence on many sides"
"it's been going on for a long time in our country. It's not Donald Trump. It's not Barack Obama," said Trump.
...he offered a call for unity among Americans of "all races, creeds, and colors."

not bad.

Three tweets from Obama, with a quote from Nelson Mandela: "No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion...People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love...For love comes more naturally to the human heart than the opposite."

tough to argue that.
DrafterX Offline
#56 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 10:26 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
Axl wrote that man....Not talking
opelmanta1900 Offline
#57 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 10:58 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
frankj1 wrote:
...in his comments, Trump condemned the bloody protests, but he did not specifically criticize the white nationalist rally and its neo-Nazi slogans beyond blaming "hatred, bigotry, and violence on many sides"
"it's been going on for a long time in our country. It's not Donald Trump. It's not Barack Obama," said Trump.
...he offered a call for unity among Americans of "all races, creeds, and colors."

not bad.

Three tweets from Obama, with a quote from Nelson Mandela: "No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion...People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love...For love comes more naturally to the human heart than the opposite."

tough to argue that.


That's just not true though... love takes effort... hate is easy... i don't even have to know you to hate you, but if I'm going to love you, I'm going to have to look past your flaws and that takes effort...

as anyone who has been married knows, love takes work... and as anyone who's ever driven on a southern California freeway knows, hating someone you've never even met is easy...
TMCTLT Offline
#58 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 11:09 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
frankj1 wrote:
...in his comments, Trump condemned the bloody protests, but he did not specifically criticize the white nationalist rally and its neo-Nazi slogans beyond blaming "hatred, bigotry, and violence on many sides"
"it's been going on for a long time in our country. It's not Donald Trump. It's not Barack Obama," said Trump.
...he offered a call for unity among Americans of "all races, creeds, and colors."

not bad.

Three tweets from Obama, with a quote from Nelson Mandela: "No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion...People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love...For love comes more naturally to the human heart than the opposite."

tough to argue that.



Frankie, that's the problem with Barry...he always has to " borrow " someone else' eloquent speech or saying because deep down he is a racist SOB ( and doesn't always do a great job of hiding it. ) He was about as divisive as they come while commander in chief. His ability to IGNORE the DAILY violence and killing of Blacks BY BLACKS is just beyond anyone's understanding while he continued to stir the racial pot.
8trackdisco Offline
#59 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 11:18 AM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,084
Speyside wrote:
8, that's a good question. Jade, yes, I would rather the evil is in plain sight. Also, you point about them being terrorists is very valid.


Evil in plain site is better, in itself.

It is when that plain evil is either explicitly or tacitly endorsed by the top exuective office in the land is when the stress fractures start to show. Obama is absolutely guilt of that. Don't know about Trump. Trump did have an excellent line in his speech. There is a segment of the country overly-emboldened by his tough stand on immigration, inferring from that, they have a ticket for White is Right. Got to be careful with that.


"We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides,"

I've heard that Hate eats away at its host from the inside out. Probably true. At the same time, unbridled hate can damage many things in its sights on the outside before the host implodes.
DrafterX Offline
#60 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 11:20 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
I heard about that spontaneous combustion thing before... Mellow
8trackdisco Offline
#61 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 11:22 AM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,084
If Trump sent in the National Guard into Chicago to stop the black on black violence, would that be considered a racist act?

Is NOT seninding troops into Chicago to save black lives a racist act?

The dude can't win.
DrafterX Offline
#62 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 11:27 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
True... true... Mellow
TMCTLT Offline
#63 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 11:30 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
8trackdisco wrote:
MLK was a man of peace and hope. The thought initially was to put signs up in the neighborhoods of the people he represented. He was the beacon of light he wanted his people to follow. I'm sure he'd be disappointed in them.

If you don't take an active role in your education, start drug dealing in middle school, and spending your time trying to be a hardashe, you're never going to get out of the hopelesss ghetto or a southern Indiana trailer park.

The only question left when the second american revolution happens, is whether it all be based on race or class.



Yeah because again based on your worldview...the only trailer parks that exist are in S. Indiana, that's a nifty way of accusing an entire state of being racist, Not surprised....not @ all. How IS life up there on that Hill???
8trackdisco Offline
#64 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 11:47 AM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,084
TMCTLT wrote:
Yeah because again based on your worldview...the only trailer parks that exist are in S. Indiana, that's a nifty way of accusing an entire state of being racist, Not surprised....not @ all. How IS life up there on that Hill???


What I was getting at, is it isn't just poor decision making on the part of blacks, but white as well. When you hear ghetto, don't you automatically think black? When you hear Southern Indiana, don't you think white?

No living on a hill here. Born a poor farm kid, lived in a trailer home the fiirst seven years of my life. A middle class guy now at best- 1,061 sq home with one bathroom.

I'd bet you are living in higher cotton than I am.

You simply missed my intended point.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#65 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 11:53 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Racist!
MACS Offline
#66 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 12:07 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,809
opelmanta1900 wrote:
That's just not true though... love takes effort... hate is easy... i don't even have to know you to hate you, but if I'm going to love you, I'm going to have to look past your flaws and that takes effort...

as anyone who has been married knows, love takes work... and as anyone who's ever driven on a southern California freeway knows, hating someone you've never even met is easy...


Yessir... children will be bad, unless they are TAUGHT to be good. Bad comes natural... good takes effort.
rfenst Offline
#67 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 12:13 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,345
opelmanta1900 wrote:
[A]s anyone who has been married knows, love takes work...



Loving marriage does take work. But, I don't think that is the type of "love" being referred to. I think it is more of the type of "love" as in "love thy neighbor" despite his differences...
rfenst Offline
#68 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 12:17 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,345
MACS wrote:
Yessir... children will be bad, unless they are TAUGHT to be good. Bad comes natural... good takes effort.


I believe children are born a neutral slate or are good and that it takes exposure to "bad" for them to emulate/poison them. Notwithstanding this belief, children do need to be taught what is proper social behavior.
teedubbya Offline
#69 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 12:18 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I don't know about all the other stuff but I sort of think the white nationalists and kkk are bad.

That's pretty simple to me. I don't really care what other groups did or didn't do. whatever, it still doesn't change the fact these groups are the low of the low.

Having another group or person you don't like as something to point to doesn't change anything even if you are right. It is possible to directly denounce these groups Period. That doesn't mean you are supporting any other groups. Things are not mutually exclusive.

I am concerned about a shift that gives any sort of normalcy to these hate groups as some sort of tit for tat against some other groups you don't like. I'm even more concerned when people try to convince themselves or others it's some sort of intellectual or sophisticated argument to do so when it's really intellectual dishonesty. Comments like it's too bad this is the group that's forced to make the point are worrisome to me.

While freedom of speech is sacred and from that perspective these groups will likely always exist they should not be tolerated at any level intellectually by anyone in this forum and certainly by anyone in government.

There are all sorts of bad groups out there. That is no reason to justify anything the kkk or white supremacists do. Their very existence is wrong. They can and will certainly exist but they are evil with zero merit. It's one star neither party should hitch their star on or treat with kids gloves. Run far far away from these ****bags.

I saw someone on tv call them Christian terrorists. Wrong. They are not christians nor is anyone who supports them no matter how tacitly.

DrafterX Offline
#70 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 12:20 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
rfenst wrote:
I believe children are born a neutral slate or are good and that it takes exposure to "bad" for them to emulate/poison them. Notwithstanding this belief, children do need to be taught what is proper social behavior.


Except for that born gay thing I guess.. Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#71 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 12:22 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I'm with you rfenst. Children are for the most part (nothing is absolute) good until we teach them otherwise. That doesn't discount the necessity to teach them morals, values and other intellectual tools of good to help them adapt as the world touches them, but my experience intuitively tells me kids are good and pure for the most part. Then we ruin them.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#72 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 12:26 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
rfenst wrote:
Loving marriage does take work. But, I don't think that is the type of "love" being referred to. I think it is more of the type of "love" as in "love thy neighbor" despite his differences...

understood and agreed... even so, I think my point still stands... the command "love thy neighbor" would not have had to be given if the natural inclination of a mans heart was to do good - to love... but it isn't... the heart is deceptive, desperately wicked...
teedubbya Offline
#73 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 12:29 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Either that or it's good but gets tempted and at times is weak and needs a reminder.
teedubbya Offline
#74 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 12:30 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
And while god is most powerful that does not translate to the devil is weak.
DrafterX Offline
#75 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 12:38 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
teedubbya wrote:
Comments like it's too bad this is the group that's forced to make the point are worrisome to me.




Why is that..?? I wasn't endorsing them or anything... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#76 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 12:41 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
There is no merit to anything these groups do period.
teedubbya Offline
#77 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 12:41 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
And I know you weren't.
DrafterX Offline
#78 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 12:43 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
I agree.. I wasn't thanking them either.. I just wish somebody else had stood up.. so don't worry about me too much... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#79 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 12:46 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Lol.

I'm just leery of giving any sort of legitimacy or merit to these fuggers. They have none and deserve none even if they purposely choose to wrap their hate around a political point you beleive in.
gummy jones Offline
#80 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 12:46 PM EST
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
MACS wrote:
Yessir... children will be bad, unless they are TAUGHT to be good. Bad comes natural... good takes effort.


we are all dreadfully wicked
each and every one of us
teedubbya Offline
#81 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 12:48 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
And I'm weirded out by removing history because we don't like it. It isn't normal to erect statues to the losing leaders after losing a war but that's what makes our country cool.

I was serious. Leave the losing generals statue up. Put the winning generals around him and teach the story.
DrafterX Offline
#82 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 12:52 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
Ya, a statue of Custer full of arrows would be cool... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#83 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 12:55 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
In fairness he lost the battle, and his life. Not the war.

But there are monuments to Indian leaders that need not be removed.

But Rushmore needs to be made bigger than crazy horse. Maybe using cgi or something.
teedubbya Offline
#84 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 12:57 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
As an aside do you think this administration will be a champion of the Indian sovereign nations?
DrafterX Offline
#85 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 12:58 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
Maybe when they add Obama... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#86 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 12:58 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Well he does have a big head and thinks highly of himself
DrafterX Offline
#87 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 1:01 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
teedubbya wrote:
As an aside do you think this administration will be a champion of the Indian sovereign nations?



I don't think they have a choice.. it would be to the tribe to give it up I think... I don't know a whole lot about it... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#88 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 1:04 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I used to work with it more than I do now. Every admin approaches it differently and there is choice. Some admins tend to buy in to the sovereign part more than others which really effects cooperation levels. I'm guessing a downswing for awhile.

Plug in to some tribal leaders to get their take. It's fascinating.
DrafterX Offline
#89 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 1:14 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
It is interesting stuff... My father assisted several tribes with setting up their own laws and courts and stuff when he worked for the BIA.. but that was back before casinos got popular.. I'm sure the tribes are getting more attention now because of the money.. Before the money I don't think the gubment thought much about them...Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#90 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 2:06 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Still don't.
victor809 Offline
#91 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 3:15 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Did tcby just criticize Obama for quoting Nelson Mandela?

What a f'ing moron.
DrafterX Offline
#92 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 3:46 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
that's kinda harsh.. he was a President and stuff.. Mellow
bgz Offline
#93 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 3:56 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
I agree with MACS and opel that we have a general disposition towards hate than towards love.

To quote that "Time Machine Movie"... who are you to argue with a hundred thousand years of evolution.

That whole survival of the fittest thing is a b1tch to overcome.

We've only been out of the caves for a couple thousand years, and people want to think that we have a natural disposition towards being neutral or good?!?!?

Let's be honest, we're the most violent and cruel predator to ever walk the face of this Earth... that's what we are.

We're 10s if not 100s of thousands of years away (if ever) from ditching those predator genes.

It's proven that children as early as 1 year of age will discriminate against others that aren't like them for the most simple of reasons. Hate to break it to you guys, the ability to accept others for their views is not the default state of a human, it requires work and at least some level of intelligence. We're a long way off of abolishing discrimination.

Anyway, I would say those two groups getting together for a protest and only one person ends up dead is actually pretty good!!!

I say one, because you can't blame the bad piloting on the protesters.

Anyway, I didn't think what Trump had to say was bad, just CNN being CNN.
DrafterX Offline
#94 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 4:11 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559


Rep. Maxine Waters lashed out at President Trump on Sunday, blaming him for the white nationalist rioters who left the nation reeling after they descended upon Charlottesville, VA on Saturday.

One woman was left dead and dozens more injured as a riot over the removal of a statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee turned ugly and violent when white supremacist groups clashed with law enforcement and counter-protesters.

Then-candidate Trump "encouraged violence against protesters at rallies. We should not be surprised," Waters tweeted.


Trump came under fire by critics on both sides of the aisle for not calling the alt-right activists and neo-Nazis in Virginia white nationalists in his condemnation of them at a press conference and on Twitter yesterday.

"We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence on many sides," the president said. "When I watch Charlottesville to me it's very, very sad."

Film at 11....Mellow




The Resistance just can't resist....
opelmanta1900 Offline
#95 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 4:30 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
DrafterX wrote:
that's kinda harsh.. he was a President and stuff.. Mellow

LOL
8trackdisco Offline
#96 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 6:44 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,084
It would be great to get definitions of Hate Groups and White Nationalists.

KKK a hate group? Yes. Neo-Nazis? Yes.

White Nationalists: What are they actually for or against? They aren't all nazis, kkk, or racists. They also aren't all benign as a group of southern gentlemen requsting monuments remain in place.

There are also the Ant-Facist group- who have been the point of a different spear- if you've watch the WTO and World Bank riots over the years, these aren't your typical snowflakes.

Are Black Lives Matter a hate group?

There are a lot of pieces on the chessboard.
Gene363 Offline
#97 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 7:18 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,834
Just give them all knives and shoot the winner, done.
Mattie B Offline
#98 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 7:24 PM EST
Joined: 12-12-2005
Posts: 6,350
I'll call it what it is 8, yeah they are terrorist.

I don't believe it has anything to do with party lines either. Both sides have morons.....well they say they align with parties(or opposite party say they do)

Anyone who intentionally tries to put terror in people can be called terrorist.
Those morons that hold gruesome signs outside abortion clinics and scream....terrorist.
Black lives matter groups that beat folks and loot...terrorist.
Klan
Black Panthers
The list can go on and on

But this is a tiny amount of the US population. There will always be idiots.

I don't believe that people are born into hate. It's natural to trust. The wife and I taught 3rd grade Sunday School this morning. We had a visitor and his mother told us, he was painfully shy. Before the hour was over, he was having fun and even sat in my lap. Adults teach hate.

As for the monuments.
It's a shame that people can't get beyond the pain. I don't hate Sherman even though he torched the South. I'd have my photo taken in front of his statue and allow the wife to share it on social media. It's history.
I heard a woman say that a statue of Robert E Lee reminds southerners of how we wish slavery was still around....I had to change the channel. What an absolute idiot.

As for Jades comment on the South....it's just him trying to be funny. If he means it, I'd have to ask how much of the South he has visited? No offense taken

Terrorist may say they belong to something other than their hate group. Sound minds need to know they don't act like Americans and stop trying to find similarities with good people.
8trackdisco Offline
#99 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 7:38 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,084
Mattie B wrote:
I'll call it what it is 8, yeah they are terrorist.

I don't believe it has anything to do with party lines either. Both sides have morons.....well they say they align with parties(or opposite party say they do)

Anyone who intentionally tries to put terror in people can be called terrorist.
Those morons that hold gruesome signs outside abortion clinics and scream....terrorist.
Black lives matter groups that beat folks and loot...terrorist.
Klan
Black Panthers
The list can go on and on

But this is a tiny amount of the US population. There will always be idiots.

I don't believe that people are born into hate. It's natural to trust. The wife and I taught 3rd grade Sunday School this morning. We had a visitor and his mother told us, he was painfully shy. Before the hour was over, he was having fun and even sat in my lap. Adults teach hate.

As for the monuments.
It's a shame that people can't get beyond the pain. I don't hate Sherman even though he torched the South. I'd have my photo taken in front of his statue and allow the wife to share it on social media. It's history.
I heard a woman say that a statue of Robert E Lee reminds southerners of how we wish slavery was still around....I had to change the channel. What an absolute idiot.

As for Jades comment on the South....it's just him trying to be funny. If he means it, I'd have to ask how much of the South he has visited? No offense taken

Terrorist may say they belong to something other than their hate group. Sound minds need to know they don't act like Americans and stop trying to find similarities with good people.


In what you've seen and heard, how much klan activity is there? I'm guessing since the Southern Poverty Law Center group won some suit, it seems instead of having larger groups of white supremes, they are now splintered into hundreds of lone wolves.

Any thoughts on that?
Mattie B Offline
#100 Posted: Sun, Aug 13 2017, 7:49 PM EST
Joined: 12-12-2005
Posts: 6,350
The Klan has been dead for decades.

And anyone with a brain in their head wouldn't be part of them.
They are vile and are lost.


One group that I can support is The Honor Guard. These are the guys that blocked protestors at military funerals. The anti-war groups try to shout and rally at the services of our fallen soldiers.
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