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Yep.......Just giving you a hard time, Mattie. I've been all over the South. Tennessee and Kentucky, mostly but spent a lot of time in Georgia and both Carolina's. Beautiful places full of mostly very decent people. I was not particularly fond of S. Carolina but that's ok. I don't have to live there. This statement you made above is probably the best one made on this whole thread.

Frank,

My experience is merely second hand. I have a buddy that rides with The Honor Guard.

He described that they form a perimeter around the graveside service holding American flags. They are there to block the family from seeing the anti war signs protestors make.

I don't know what this group calls them self.


And I say the Klan is dead....there is no speaking of it. No prpoganda and no public knowledge of rallies. They exist underground if at all.

Actually frank, I would argue that it is survival of the fittest. People spread their BS because they believe it gives their future generations a better shot at survival... even if that BS was originally created by some slick talker to gain more power and money.

In no way am I defending these people for their beliefs, I'm merely making the claim and why racism/discrimination will never go away.

My social beliefs are inline with everyone here, racism bad, kkk bad, blm bad, etc...

Are our beliefs right or wrong? well, to me, they're right, but on a universal scale... I don't know. It could just be evolutionary switches to ensure war happens as a way for nature to ensure population control for all we know... I'm making no claim to that knowledge.

My only point is that humans are brutal AF and have been for a long time.

Anytime I see everyone pointing fingers as to who the bad guy is, makes me think of scarface...


What you lookin' at? You all a bunch of f**kin' a**holes. You know why? You don't have the guts to be what you wanna be? You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your f**kin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie. Me, I don't have that problem. Me, I always tell the truth. Even when I lie. So say good night to the bad guy! Come on. The last time you gonna see a bad guy like this again, let me tell you. Come on. Make way for the bad guy. There's a bad guy comin' through! Better get outta his way!

Blame Trump. This is another of his failed promises. He boldly announced during his inauguration that the "carnage ends now!" As if...

Conservatives who tend to defend white nationalists have been outspoken about acts of violence during Resistance protests, mostly aimed at Trump supporters trying to obstruct a protest. Where is the outrage now? Neither side is immune to hateful and violent people on the margins, yet libs are painted as the anti-free speech, violent and destructive unhinged part of the American population among conservative circles.

But this event is an example of American greatness. We are able to let the most hateful among us gather and speak and try to defend them. We are able to let those who oppose their message gather and speak to denounce them. Our democracy and way of life was never threatened. We are still a land of laws and civility. At some point we can let every voice be heard without any person getting killed. But we are not too different from most other parts of the world. Racism and tribalism is alive and well.

I guess if I had to pick, it would be class. The ruling class needs to be booted. Old school, heads-on-pikes, type of stuff. Democrats, Republicans, all of them because they are all the same. None of them represent you or I. They divide us and conquer us without ever firing a shot. I'm not even talking about the Gubmint. I'm talking the REAL ruling class. The Kochs, the Soros's. Those shadowy figures that really make the decisions.

Gotta say I am really disappointed in a lot of people. Not really surprised... but disappointed.

I really don't even know where to start.... Do we start with the people who have tried to put Black Lives Matter and the KKK in the same list? As if there is some sort of equivalence between a movement started for the simple reason that some people thought a disproportionate number of black people were killed in interactions with cops... and a group which was organized for the systematic brutal intimidation,, beating, raping and lynching of people of a specific race...

Then you have the confederate statues. Statues to people who were fighting for the specific reason to keep in place an organized subjugation of a race, a subjugation which had existed for generations and resulted in beatings, death, rapes of people for no reason other than being born a specific race. And the rationale is "we don't have a problem with the winning general's statues in our city... and he burned a bunch of people!".... it's an amazing inability to understand just how absolutely wrong one side of the war was. Hell.. you don't see people in germany bragging about their relatives fighting for the SS... or trying to keep statues of Himmler up. And while horrible people, and killing millions of people, they didn't even have the holocaust in place for a full generation. We are talking about an institution which killed millions of blacks just in the process of bringing slaves to the americas... and the ones that lived... well... they were slaves. To be beaten, raped or killed as desired. Yet there are people who romanticize the generals who wanted to fight to keep that institution in place. And feign surprise when someone who might have had their family history impacted by that institution aren't so thrilled to see a statue honoring those generals in place.

The claims that removing a statue to a general of the losing side is somehow "erasing history" is bullsh#t people are trying to sell who actually want to keep those statues in place out of some sick desire to have the country move back to that timeperiod. No one is suggesting removing the names from history books. In fact, I'd bet that the same people who want to remove those statues are very interested in ensuring our history books continue to document how half the country wanted to keep a race enslaved and were wiling to fight to the death to make sure they could. The confederate generals are not heroes of our country. They are heroes of a country which was quickly and appropriately aborted. There is no reason for us to keep those statues other than to appease racists.

As for the KKK... it doesn't need to be public any longer. Who needs sheets and hoods to mask their identity while they meet with other racists and talk racist sh3t... We have the internet where trolls can make up names for themselves to allow them to anonymously talk racist sh#t. We have right wing racists attacking people on twitter, or forums screaming threats of raping people in all CAPS when movie studios have a black man or a woman be a star in a movie,... I suppose we should be thankful that the internet is giving these sickos an outlet so they don't go burn a cross on a lawn ... But then one of them gets behind the wheel of a car.

The whole thing is disappointing. The idea that these "alt right" (read "racists without the balls to wear a sheet or a swastika") people exist in numbers to have a rally... the idea that anyone thinks there is a justification for them.... the fact that our president didn't denounce them immediately.... and on a personal note, a lot of the people here. All of it is disappointing.

Just curious... Did anyone have a protest permit?

So, the civil war was all about slavery now..?? I get confused...

So we agree that Barry is a Moron....that's cool!!!

i have no expectation that everyone will love everyone
in fact, i am certain that it will never be achieved

some civility would be nice though

Vic, if you think the civil war was about slavery then your as dumb as you think everyone here is.

Yes victor slavery was the main focal point to an even larger issue which was whether or not the federal government had the authority to create blanket mandates.

Grant it, I have no ties to civil war America but I still say that the federal government needs to have limited power and the states should be able to choose what ia right for them individually.

And at that it was only the Southern slaves that he freed. Those slaves in territories within the Union still remained slaves.

When in the Course of Human Events: Arguing the Case for Southern Secession

The Real Lincoln

Some reading for you buddy.

So glad I spent the weekend fishing and didn't learn anything about this until this morning. Seems the news outlets have all gone way out of their way looking for outrage...and, in effect probably causing a lot of it.

Maybe I missed something by being unplugged...but from what I gather, a bunch of hate-filled white supremacists (who seem to be given zero validation by anyone outside their membership) had a planned gathering for no real reason other than to gather and see if they could gain more followers. (I really doubt that many of them cared much about any statues...but so what if they did. I think its ok for that to be a separate converstation.) A large contingent of people opposed to the group also gathered. Despite the reports that there were a LOT of weapons on hand, there was little more than shouting and scuffling between VERY different groups with a lot of hate to go around. Later, a likely mentally disturbed individual drove a car into a crowd. I can't seem to imagine that most of the worst of the supremacists thought very highly of that. The president condemned hatred, bigotry, violence.

All things considered...and with respects to the killed young woman and her family, I don't see what all the post-event noise is about. Yes...I read the comments above...and agree with a lot of it...but...really, all things considered, I don't think it was an event that I'm going to lose sleep over. Sure, the president could have said a lot of different things differently...and told people what they thought they wanted to hear...but Trump is who we're talking about here. I also agree that IN MY OPINION, he should have denounced the racists way back in the campaign when it was clear that they thought they were tacitly endorsed by him. He didn't....but I'm still a ways from blaming him for the idiots with the torches.

The one thing that I have learned...is that I should fish more and watch 'news' less...in fact maybe everyone should....but not where I'm fishing, please. Its crowded enough already.

Here's a quote from a delegate at the Virginia secession convention... guy named Henry Benning.
I'm not sure what I'm most disturbed by... the fact that people are trying to justify the generals who fought to support people like this sh1tstain, or the fact that I hear a lot of these same phrases from people today...

"What was the reason that induced Georgia to take the step of secession? This reason may be summed up in one single proposition. It was a conviction, a deep conviction on the part of Georgia, that a separation from the North-was the only thing that could prevent the abolition of her slavery. ... If things are allowed to go on as they are, it is certain that slavery is to be abolished. By the time the north shall have attained the power, the black race will be in a large majority, and then we will have black governors, black legislatures, black juries, black everything. Is it to be supposed that the white race will stand for that? It is not a supposable case ... war will break out everywhere like hidden fire from the earth, and it is probable that the white race, being superior in every respect, may push the other back. ... we will be overpowered and our men will be compelled to wander like vagabonds all over the earth; and as for our women, the horrors of their state we cannot contemplate in imagination. That is the fate which abolition will bring upon the white race. ... We will be completely exterminated, and the land will be left in the possession of the blacks, and then it will go back to a wilderness and become another Africa... Suppose they elevated Charles Sumner to the presidency? Suppose they elevated Fred Douglass, your escaped slave, to the presidency? What would be your position in such an event? I say give me pestilence and famine sooner than that."

Seriously... I've heard the same sh1t in this forum from people... whether it's Muslims in Detroit "they're creating a caliphate!!" Or people afraid whites will become the minority....

Disgusting fear and short sightedness....

They're very interesting quotes. I find them fascinating given the claim everyone likes to make to pretend slavery had nothing to do with it or was just a tiny part of it.

Those are the documents they drafted for posterity. That's what they wanted people to read and say "yeah you made the right decision"... how good could the reasons they didn't want us to know about be if they were leading with "I like slavery"

Way ahead of you. I bass fish and hike all of the time and refuse to pay for cable. The media are the worlds best trolls, and they love to get everyone riled up...aint happening in my house. F'em.

So, the civil war was caused by shenanigans..??

Ben was smart... I heard he invented peanut butter... I wonder if he knew it would kill peoples...

And sliced bread.. not sure when the north Koreans invented jelly tho...

The raison d'etre for the KKK, White Nationalists and affiliated white supremacy groups is: the white race is superior to all others, the white race must be kept pure, and America was founded by white Europeans so all others should be excluded. American history is replete with believers of this philosophy: some of our greatest citizens were ardent believers. This philosophy was codified in local, state and federal laws until the 60's and some vestiges remain. To this day, many influential and powerful American elites who grew up when that was the law of the land, believe this. A look at the composition of major corporate boards and top administrations of the biggest and wealthiest American corporations and leaders at all levels of government reflect this belief.

With such a strong and firm grip on the levers of American power, money and influence, why do some members of the majority race (and by a large margin) need to hate, fear and denigrate minority people?


It's almost like in-your-face taunting...life doesn't have to be a win-lose game...the human race has been made better by those from all parts of the globe seeking win-win solutions...

s'at that book they give girls when they's becomin wimmin?

I don't think it's possible to be 100% white. I've seen the results from several people who've had their DNA tested, you'd be surprised at the results. I mean, what specific nationalities can be designated as white? There's plenty of Caucasians from warmer climates who are quite dark for being "white".

Further, I would think everyone would have a certain percentage of African lineage even if it's a very small percentage just due to the leading theories of where the first humans were born.

I think the KKK should install protocol for making all it's members take a DNA test to prove they are 100% (99.999 minimum) white to be members to ensure purity continues on... problem solved.

I think BGZ is the grand authoritarian or whatever they call it.