8trackdisco wrote:Everything happens according to the times. Slaves were used to get stuff done. whether you look at the Bible, the tribalism of yesteryear or today in Africa- read up on the elections and controversy around them in Kenya, South Africa, & Nigeria.
Winners have enslaved the losers. Eventually, the English French and all of Europeans decide slavery was somewhat tasteless and in poor form. That, and the didn't have 5,000 acres of cotton needing picking.
Yes... but the americas made slavery special (we are like that)... The americas continued perpetuating the racial aspect of the slavery, combining the "hey we won! we're gonna make you work for us" fun with the "your race, and any child you have of your race is inferior and only suitable for the labor we tell you to do" fun... the inferiority of a race was codified into scientific literature and encyclopedias of the time.
Quote:I doubt slavery would have ever went nationwide. Maybe it would have kept labor costs and unemployment down in the grain belt of the Midwest for a bit. That is IF the Southerns wanted anything to do with taking over the North.
They simply wanted to live the life they were living, and didn't want the Feds to tell them what to do. I have that in common with them.
you can "doubt it" all you want. They were careful to ensure that a line item in their constitution gave them the right to implement slavery in any territory they conquered. Now, I don't know who to believe... your gut feeling or a document from the era which was drafted to provide the rule of law those states would live under.... it's a toss-up.
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Lincoln said if freeing all of the slave would preserve the union, he would do it. If keeping them all in chains would accomplish the preserved union, he'd do that too. He wasn't the most progressive guy out there. He was a moderate at best. The southerns lost their chit, jumped the gun, and nearly won with at best a third of the resources the north had. Superior generals will make up the deficits.
I don't disagree that lincoln probably didn't care that much. This isn't about lincoln at all... it's about the south. They don't exist in a vacuum I agree, but I don't think lincoln's motivations are that important. And whetehr they had the bestter generals or not isn't really relevant. Bad people can have excellent strategists work for them. Doesn't mean we should give them a statue. Or care if it's taken down.
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They didn't care for Club Fed any more and wanted out of the club. The Feds said.. no. That makes it a States Rights, not a Slavery issue.
Think of it this way. You decide, that you no longer want to post on Cigarbid. You don't like the bi-laws and SteveR the Second is taking over- and you hate him more than SteveR's mom. You decide not to post here any more, and they MAKE you stay and post.
Would you allow that to stand?
I get it 8... I understand some people feel some kindred spirit for those who don't want to knuckle under the federal government. That doesn't make it "not a slavery issue"... the issue they were disagreeing with the federal government over was slavery. Hell, North carolina was literally angry that the northern states weren't returning escaped slaves like they were supposed to (article 4 of the constitution) and the federal government didn't make them... (so they wanted the federal government involved when it helped them.... starts to sound like our current era).
And you're right. The secession was exactly like how you describe it... if svenR II tried to make me stay and post, I'd be pretty pissed too. Might even go and kick his dog.
But we aren't talking about posting on a forum. We're talking about owning people.
I said it before, if the southern states were trying to secede because they liked raping toddlers, and the northern states were letting people escape with their 4 year olds and not sending them back to get raped... are you going to let that fall under "states rights"? Say "ah, they just don't care for club fed keeping them from raping toddlers and tehy just wanted out of the club"....
We are talking about people's lives.
