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Last post 6 years ago by victor809. 366 replies replies.
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The Schumer Shutdown...
RMAN4443 Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
HuckFinn wrote:
Shadenfreude


Gesundheit!!!!!!Beer
frankj1 Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
very thoughtful.
victor809 Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Kawak wrote:
Do you even read your own chit? There was no negotiation. Executive order is king Barry saying "I'll do what I want, I don't need you". At least Mr. orange's EO to remove it gave the congress 4-5 months to work on it. He could have just ended it.


You realize that when I say "US government negotiated in good faith to get these illegal immigrants to become documented...." that I'm not talking about congress negotiating with every illegal immigrant, right? Or even Obama negotiating wtih every illegal immigrant.

Its a pretty simple idea. The US government set up a program (doesn't matter if it was EO or congress voted on it). The people who qualified had to choose to enter into it... they had to submit their information. That's the negotiation. the illegal immigrants could have chosen not to enter into the program. Hell, apparently there are even fees.

If you take that program away, you are essentially reneging on an existing agreement. Not just that, but the people (700k) who entered all their information into the program are now extraordinarily exposed, as ICE now knows exactly who they are and where they live and work. It's seriously bad form. But I don't expect you to understand that...

And Trump giving "congress 4-5 months to work it out"... they offered him a joint solution days ago and he said he wouldn't vote on it. After saying he would vote on anything they brought him. It's irrelevant if he gives them 4months, 5 months, or 25 months if he's going to refuse to sign anything both sides of congress agree on. He has no credibility.
HuckFinn Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
RMAN4443 wrote:
Gesundheit!!!!!!Beer

schadenfreudeèeeee
Damn.
Thank you.
RMAN4443 Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
frankj1 wrote:
very thoughtful.

Thank You, that one year of German in High School finally paid off.....Anxious
DrafterX Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
Last I heard they were working on a deal.. he said he has no intention of killing the deal.. Like I said, there is nothing to vote on today.. Mellow
victor809 Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Honestly, whatever you think of DACA, whether you like it or want to get rid of it... can anyone honestly advise a congressperson to trust the president any longer?

"We'll totally take care of that in time" may have been good enough for other presidents, but when this one has literally changed positions within a day on a number of proposed bills or even executive orders (he can't even be trustworthy to himself).... that's just meaningless.

Seems to me that no matter who you are, if you have something important you want to get done with this administration, you need to hold something hostage which is important to the orange moron. That's how he's operated his businesses for decades... get someone to do something for you, then don't hold up your end of the deal (pay them). The dems got burned on this a few times, and it looks like they learned their lesson.

frankj1 Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
victor809 wrote:
You realize that when I say "US government negotiated in good faith to get these illegal immigrants to become documented...." that I'm not talking about congress negotiating with every illegal immigrant, right? Or even Obama negotiating wtih every illegal immigrant.

Its a pretty simple idea. The US government set up a program (doesn't matter if it was EO or congress voted on it). The people who qualified had to choose to enter into it... they had to submit their information. That's the negotiation. the illegal immigrants could have chosen not to enter into the program. Hell, apparently there are even fees.

If you take that program away, you are essentially reneging on an existing agreement. Not just that, but the people (700k) who entered all their information into the program are now extraordinarily exposed, as ICE now knows exactly who they are and where they live and work. It's seriously bad form. But I don't expect you to understand that...

And Trump giving "congress 4-5 months to work it out"... they offered him a joint solution days ago and he said he wouldn't vote on it. After saying he would vote on anything they brought him. It's irrelevant if he gives them 4months, 5 months, or 25 months if he's going to refuse to sign anything both sides of congress agree on. He has no credibility.

accurate.

and to add fuel to the fire, calling them "illegal" is borderline, they were brought here as children (like they had a choice), raised with our kids, educated here, may have served in the military, many went to college and assimilated (isn't that the idea people?) paid taxes once employed...pretty much like our kids. And they agreed to identify themselves, not hiding.

They aren't stealing lettuce picking jobs. These aren't the ones you want out. The Dreamers want to live The Dream and did all that was asked. If they took a job from your kid, tell your kid to try harder.

Nothing was given.
victor809 Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Quack has a lettuce picking job?

.... explains things.
DrafterX Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
This doesn't have to be decided today... A bad reason to shut down the gubment... Protecting illegal aliens is more important than funding our military..?? Really..?? Huh
victor809 Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
This doesn't have to be decided today... A bad reason to shut down the gubment... Protecting illegal aliens is more important than funding our military..?? Really..?? Huh


First... are you not paying attention? If you want something done with this moron-in-chief, you need to do it when you have leverage. Otherwise he will not honor any commitments he has made. Clearly they realized they have no other opportunities between now and march. If you believe he has any intention of negotiating DACA continuation in good faith then you're a bigger idiot than he is. He's already proven he doesn't by rejecting the last joint bill.

Second... Everyone gets paid after the budget is passed. It's a huge waste of money actually, because every non-essential person goes home and plays. Then gets paid for their time anyway later.
frankj1 Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
DrafterX wrote:
This doesn't have to be decided today... A bad reason to shut down the gubment... Protecting illegal aliens is more important than funding our military..?? Really..?? Huh

no, it isn't. and neither is the stupid wall.

tunnels will still go under it, jets will learn to fly over it.
delta1 Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,794
as if we will not fund the military...guess Kim Jun Fat will shoot a nuke at us if the government shuts down, since the US military is sidelined, huh?
DrafterX Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
You guys are looking for excuses to justify shutting down the gubment. .. it's nothing more than pure politics.. the Dems will use this hard at election time.. just wait and see... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,794
not really...the last govt. shut-down affected us at work, since we got a portion of our funding from the feds (we had to draw on reserves to make some payments), but it wasn't as bad as it was made out to be...
banderl Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
DrafterX wrote:
You guys are looking for excuses to justify shutting down the gubment. .. it's nothing more than pure politics.. the Dems will use this hard at election time.. just wait and see... Mellow



President Trump’s comments about the 2013 government shutdown during the Obama administration have resurfaced as the federal government races toward a shutdown of its own.

Trump spoke to “Fox & Friends” in 2013 and was asked who would be fired during a government shutdown, as shown in a clip posted by "Morning Joe."

“Well, if you say who gets fired it always has to be the top,” Trump said. “I mean, problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top and the president’s the leader. And he’s got to get everybody in a room and he’s got to lead.”

He said that further down in history, “when they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time.”

“They’re not going to be talking about who was the head of the House, the head the Senate, who’s running things in Washington,” Trump said.

“So I really think the pressure is on the president,” he added.
Krazeehorse Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 04-09-2010
Posts: 1,958
I think they will compromise quickly because they all come out looking like dumar$$ess if they don't. And their number one priority (each and every one of them) is to get themselves re-elected.
DrafterX Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
That's true... And exactly what 'The Resistance' wants... Like Victor stated earlier, there's no reason to vote against funding the gunmen tonite... Mellow
Phil222 Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
They don't need Trump to sign anything. They could do a DACA bill seperate with a 2/3rds majority in the House and Senate, and that would override a presedential veto. The problem is that DACA is being used as a bargaining chip for other things. Both sides are just playing hardball politics. I'm anxious to see which side will cave first. My money is on the Dems.
HuckFinn Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
DrafterX wrote:
You guys are looking for excuses to justify shutting down the gubment. .. it's nothing more than pure politics.. the Dems will use this hard at election time.. just wait and see... Mellow

Takes two to tango
DrafterX Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
Yep, majority or not this needs Dem support.. if they say no it's on the Senate not just the Republicans... Mellow
deadeyedick Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,097
frankj1 wrote:
accurate.

and to add fuel to the fire, calling them "illegal" is borderline, they were brought here as children (like they had a choice), raised with our kids, educated here, may have served in the military, many went to college and assimilated (isn't that the idea people?) paid taxes once employed...pretty much like our kids. And they agreed to identify themselves, not hiding.

They aren't stealing lettuce picking jobs. These aren't the ones you want out. The Dreamers want to live The Dream and did all that was asked. If they took a job from your kid, tell your kid to try harder.

Nothing was given.



Sorry but inaccurate.

Tell me again why many colleges have given these dreamers in-state tuition but 2 of my grandkids have to pay out-of-state tuition to go to that same school.
victor809 Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Are your grandkids out of state? Cuz that might be a reason...
DrafterX Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
Verses being illegal from out of the country I think was his point... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
Here is the reality: Democrats are scared to death that a Republican Congress and a Republican president may actually effect some reform of our flawed immigration system. They have pursued the Hispanic community vigorously for many years, seeking to solidify their support within the country’s fastest growing demographic.

Part of the Democratic strategy has been to demonize the GOP as racist and anti-immigrant. Trump’s candidacy and his careless comments about Mexicans greased the skids.

In their eagerness to curry favor with Hispanics, Democrats have increasingly abandoned their earlier professed support for secure borders. Though they continue to pay lip service to protecting against illegal immigration, many have opposed the use of E-verify and other approaches that might reduce the allure of entering the U.S. without authorization.

The Democrats have also encouraged the spread of sanctuary cities, where local governments limit their cooperation with federal officials on the enforcement of U.S. immigration laws. And they just hate Trump’s proposed wall along our southern border.

Now many Democrats are insisting they will not vote for a spending bill needed to keep government operating beyond Friday night unless it includes a lopsided DACA fix proposed by Senators Durbin and Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., which allows Dreamers a path to legal status but skimps on border enforcement.

Though nearly everyone supports protecting Dreamers against deportation, Republicans and the White House want to couple that with enhanced border security, to make sure that what some are calling “amnesty” does not result in great numbers of new people flooding in without permission.

Democrats are taking a risk. Most Americans are compassionate and welcoming to immigrants, recognizing the invaluable contributions of those who have come to the U.S. from other nations legally.

But, at the same time, most Americans favor border enforcement. Hillary Clinton found that out the hard way, when WikiLeaks exposed her making this comment in 2013: "My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders, sometime in the future.…”

Those remarks gave candidate Trump the ammunition he needed to paint his opponent as weak on protecting our borders; it didn’t help that the lines came from a paid speech Clinton made to a Brazilian bank.

Polling has shown that 65 percent of Americans favor coupling legal status for the Dreamers with tougher immigration enforcement. Some 79 percent of those surveyed think employers should have to verify the legal status of their workers, for instance. Democrats balking at such a compromise are on the wrong side of this issue.

Many in the liberal media argue that the GOP will be blamed for any spending impasse that forces a government shutdown, since Republicans have a majority in both houses of Congress and occupy the White House. But Americans understand that passing a budget requires 60 votes in the Senate, which Republicans do not have. Republicans will need at least 10 Democratic votes.

Democrats are in a pickle. They can anger the nation by blocking a proposed spending resolution that lacks a DACA fix but that would fund our military and provide a six-year extension of the popular Children’s Health Insurance Program. Or they can infuriate Hispanics by keeping the federal lights on and working to resolve the Dreamer problem as part of a broader immigration package.

Latinos do not look to Republicans to fix this problem; they expect Democrats to do so. It isn’t the office of Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., that has attracted a protest demonstration by immigration activists – it is Chuck Schumer’s.

Everyone wants changes to our immigration system, including the White House. And nearly everyone wants to protect the Dreamers. There’s lots of room to negotiate, and President Trump has signaled support for a compromise.

But a compromise – a win – on immigration would be another nightmare for Democrats. The optics of President Trump hosting a signing ceremony in the White House to celebrate passage of an immigration bill, which has eluded the past several presidents, would be unimaginably valuable for Republicans as we approach the November elections.

A new immigration law would be almost as valuable for Republicans as the millions of workers getting bonuses and wage hikes because of the GOP tax bill that President Trump signed into law.

A few more wins and Democrats are going to have a hard time persuading voters that President Trump and a Republican Congress aren’t indeed Making America Great Again.

Film at 11.... Mellow
banderl Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
banderl wrote:
President Trump’s comments about the 2013 government shutdown during the Obama administration have resurfaced as the federal government races toward a shutdown of its own.

Trump spoke to “Fox & Friends” in 2013 and was asked who would be fired during a government shutdown, as shown in a clip posted by "Morning Joe."

“Well, if you say who gets fired it always has to be the top,” Trump said. “I mean, problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top and the president’s the leader. And he’s got to get everybody in a room and he’s got to lead.”

He said that further down in history, “when they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time.”

“They’re not going to be talking about who was the head of the House, the head the Senate, who’s running things in Washington,” Trump said.

“So I really think the pressure is on the president,” he added.

Phil222 Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
#75 That about sums it up for me. I'm all for keeping DACA if we can put policies in place that make sure we never have to do anything like this again.
DrafterX Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
And like I said before.. this is what The Resistance wants... Mellow
banderl Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
Orange Donny wants a shutdown:
s recently as last May, Trump seemed to relish a spending fight with Democrats.

"Our country needs a good 'shutdown' in September to fix mess!" he tweeted, after reaching a compromise with Democrats to avoid a filibuster over a spending deal.

White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders explained what he meant this week: "He said it would be good politics. "Look, that's never been a preference of this administration. It wasn't then; it isn't now."
DrafterX Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
Irrelevant to today... And you know it.. Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
deadeyedick wrote:
Sorry but inaccurate.

Tell me again why many colleges have given these dreamers in-state tuition but 2 of my grandkids have to pay out-of-state tuition to go to that same school.

I can not answer that question specifically for state colleges.
can you tell me why we want these kids deported?
gummy jones Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
Shut it down

Stop kicking the can down the road

Our government is a collective joke

Reelection and maintaining oligarch status is all they care about
HuckFinn Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Seems 5 years ago during the 2 week shut down around 850,000 government workers were furloughed and it cost the government (us) more than $2.5 billion.

They're saying some agencies are better prepared this go-round. Have new revenue streams. So they can still operate and issue checks.

Still, government employees that are considered essential are gonna have to work with no paycheck. Gon' Fishing or....maybe there are options?

Thank god Lawmakers will continue to receive their pay, although some lower-level staffers may not.

And my cigars, i mean the mail will be delivered!! Ah yes!
Cause, neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night NOR GOVERNMENT SHUT DOWN stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds
Weather permitting
victor809 Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I don't see how a kid having to pay out of state tuition for a college out of state is germane to the discussion. If the illegal applied to a state they didn't live in they would have to pay out of state tuition too .

It isn't like you can't move the kid to the state to get residency after two years. ... or send them to a better college.
frankj1 Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
out of state and out of country kids pay full boat making it possible for in state kids to pay fantastically affordable rates for excellent educations.
Phil222 Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
With the money that we spend on illegal immigration, we could send every kid in this country to college for free and still have around 25 billion dollars left over annually.
teedubbya Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Funny to see roles reversed in here. Think of what you were saying last time. Is it the opposite this time. Both sides.
delta1 Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,794
The GOP was playing hardball back in 2013 because they didn't want to fund Obamacare...and were blaming it on the President...Dems were outraged...

now the GOP has its President in office, one who is on record as saying we could use a good shutdown, and they are outraged because not enough Dems supported their position, yet not ONE voted against the shutdown then...there were a few GOP Sen who voted against this bill......hypocrisy?

Guess the GOP doesn't like it when Dems play "hardball" (five crossed party lines, but not enough) politics...they never thought it would happen, so they didn't see a need to compromise...

I am outraged that there will be a shutdown, but this is not entirely on the Dems...Trump could've helped with the DACA part, but he didn't provide the leadership he said Obama lacked and he reneged on his support for DACA...

Maybe Trump was right about a shutdown being good right about now...the last one didn't collapse the USA, and neither will this one. I wonder what happened to the idea that our Congressmen, House and Senate, shouldn't be paid if they allow the govt. to shut down?
TMCTLT Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Phil222 wrote:
With the money that we spend on illegal immigration, we could send every kid in this country to college for free and still have around 25 billion dollars left over annually.




THIS I can agree with....because it's TRUE.
TMCTLT Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
frankj1 wrote:
I can not answer that question specifically for state colleges.
can you tell me why we want these kids deported?




YES....they're here illegally and untold amounts of taxpayer funded resources are used up on them WITHOUT our approval as our men and Women in our military forces who have ALREADY GIVEN cannot now receive the proper medical care they so desperately DESERVE!!
Their bending the ears of OUR....get that OUR elected officials to be sympathetic to their cause and go AGAINST what the MAJORITY of Americans want. I'm sorry I do NOT feel as though we OWE them ANYTHING...and I want all that $$$$ spent on these law breakers to go to OUR CHILDREN and GRANDCHILDREN.

If they( the F'n dreamers) want to be pissed @ someone or something....let them focus their angst on THEIR PARENTS or the corrupt Sh*thole government they they came from and now abandoned.
deadeyedick Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,097
frankj1 wrote:
I can not answer that question specifically for state colleges.
can you tell me why we want these kids deported?


Frank, can you tell me why you think I want these kids deported? Or did you just assume that? We may but I may not.
deadeyedick Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,097
victor809 wrote:
I don't see how a kid having to pay out of state tuition for a college out of state is germane to the discussion. If the illegal applied to a state they didn't live in they would have to pay out of state tuition too .

It isn't like you can't move the kid to the state to get residency after two years. ... or send them to a better college.


There are some things you don't see because you don't look. My comment was not meant to be germane to this discussion but only to an assertion Frank made in this discussion. Carry on.
DrafterX Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
We should all be outraged.. but some are celebrating.. Mellow
tailgater Offline
#94 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
Honestly, whatever you think of DACA, whether you like it or want to get rid of it... can anyone honestly advise a congressperson to trust the president any longer?




And there it is.
Justification to do or say anything. Because....Trump.

tailgater Offline
#95 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
out of state and out of country kids pay full boat making it possible for in state kids to pay fantastically affordable rates for excellent educations.


Meanwhile, we're all eating gumdrops falling from the sky while riding our unicorns.


Frankie T, I hope you were being sarcastic.
tailgater Offline
#96 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Let's make this simple.

Every politician who chose DACA over military families should be forced to resign immediately.

And stop calling them "dreamers".
They're children of illegal immigrants.
Doesn't make the "kids" (many are over 18 now) bad. But it does put them as a lower priority than the families who sacrifice so their loved ones can serve our military.

Republican.
Democrat.
Independent.
I simply don't care.

If you voted to stop paying our military you don't deserve to serve in our political system.
HuckFinn Offline
#97 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
DrafterX wrote:
We should all be outraged.. but some are celebrating.. Mellow

Who the hell is celebrating?
DrafterX Offline
#98 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
Schumer & Pelosi for starters.. I'm sure The Resistance is celebrating also... A big ole Resistance circle jerk going on all night... Mellow
HuckFinn Offline
#99 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
tailgater wrote:
Let's make this simple.

Every politician who chose DACA over military families should be forced to resign immediately.

And stop calling them "dreamers".
They're children of illegal immigrants.
Doesn't make the "kids" (many are over 18 now) bad. But it does put them as a lower priority than the families who sacrifice so their loved ones can serve our military.

Republican.
Democrat.
Independent.
I simply don't care.

If you voted to stop paying our military you don't deserve to serve in our political system.

Military: The active-duty military will remain on the job, and military operations in places like Afghanistan would continue. Guidance from the Defense Department issued on Friday said military personnel would not be paid (they'll get all that's owed them when the SD ends)
neither would necessary civilian personnel. In previous shutdowns, training missions were curtailed. Military contractors would not be affected, as long as their work has already been funded.

Veterans Affairs: Ever since a scare about veterans not getting their health care during the last government shutdown, the Veterans Health Administration has been getting its funding appropriated in advance. According to the VA, 95.5 percent of its employees are exempted from a shutdown and would come to work. So the VA says it will suffer no effects from a shutdown.
https://www.npr.org/2018/01/19/578985305/open-or-closed-heres-what-happens-in-a-partial-government-shutdown

Dude, stop playing the freaking blame game. You want total exoneration? Me too!
frankj1 Offline
#100 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
deadeyedick wrote:
Frank, can you tell me why you think I want these kids deported? Or did you just assume that? We may but I may not.

I assumed it...and I do know the assume rule!
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