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National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934
tailgater Offline
#201 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185


Which Trayvon Martin?
The one who was shown as a 12 year old innocent kid by all the media (ala Michael Brown)?
Or the one who was jacking up on skittles and cough syrup and manhandled the idiot with the gun?

ZRX1200 Offline
#202 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,614
RACIST CRACKER ASS CRACKER!!!
victor809 Offline
#203 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
Which Trayvon Martin?
The one who was shown as a 12 year old innocent kid by all the media (ala Michael Brown)?
Or the one who was jacking up on skittles and cough syrup and manhandled the idiot with the gun?



Why do you assume that he was "jacked up on cough syrup"?
HuckFinn Offline
#204 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
I remember he was a pothead. I don't remember anything else about other substances.

Maybe because I was a pothead ...?
Speyside Offline
#205 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Come on, the kid walked in his yard. Death seems reasonable. I mean if the police had arrived it would have been suicide by cop for sure.
Brewha Offline
#206 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
DrafterX wrote:
My brain is spotless... Not talking

Did you take the Tide Pod challenge?? Huh
RMAN4443 Offline
#207 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
HuckFinn wrote:
I understand what you're saying. He often used the office as a bully pulpit for Black American causes and concerns. What black man wouldn't?

The remarks that offend you so much came from a place of empathy for people of color that, as I know you know, we're enslaved, disenfranchised, and treated like chit historically, right?

He couldn't solve race tensions. He worsened them probably. He wasn't up to the task. Neither was our country.

I for one think he never intended to divide us further, but the opposite...

Donald on the other hand could give two chits.

Isn't Trayvon Martin could have been my son a plea?

Wouldn't a unifyer have said "Trayvon could have been any one of our children?"????
Speyside Offline
#208 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Nah, it's the alcohol disinfecting him.
tailgater Offline
#209 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
Why do you assume that he was "jacked up on cough syrup"?


That was the narrative at the time.
truth be told, I had never heard of the cough syrup/skittles thing prior that story.

And haven't been off them since...


paulkeck Offline
#210 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
tailgater wrote:
That was the narrative at the time.
truth be told, I had never heard of the cough syrup/skittles thing prior that story.

And haven't been off them since...




Shoot me Vic and BGZ gonna be hitting the purple drank tonight!
tailgater Offline
#211 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
The Trayvon story is a sad one.
We can't have an over zealous "watch man" pulling guns because, well, ever.

Call the cops and let THEM beat the perp up.

It was a hot story and the sitting president chose a side.
That isn't unity, even if you agree with him.

Don't get me wrong. This wasn't his best effort to divide the country. Not even close.
But we can't dismiss it as being nothing more than empathy, because it was much much more.








victor809 Offline
#212 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
That was the narrative at the time.
truth be told, I had never heard of the cough syrup/skittles thing prior that story.

And haven't been off them since...




The narrative was a ridiculous attempt to smear the dead kid.
The narrative was "He was carrying two of the 3 ingredients that those inner city black people combine to make "drank"!" (note... the 2 of the 3 ingredients were skittles and iced tea... really missing the important ingredient, cough syrup... and even then my understanding is "skittles" in the recipe is code for cough medicine in pills form. Esseentially, it's like claiming a person is carrying half the ingredients of a rum and coke, so they MUST be an alcohol abuser)

tailgater Offline
#213 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
paulkeck wrote:
Shoot me Vic and BGZ gonna be hitting the purple drank tonight!


Purple!

Be careful around TW.
If you tell him you'll be sucking on purple all night he will get the wrong idea.


Brewha Offline
#214 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Ok, here is my shot at what we should do with gun laws:

Reinstate the ban on selling assault style weapons. Semi auto rifles with large capacity magazines that support rapid fire. Lot to argue here about the details, but the goal is not to limit true hunting rifles (bolt action, 3 round shot guns, etc,) but stop in influx of the militarized ones that have no home in our society - out side of being “cool toys”.

Ban bump stocks that can make a rifle near automatic.

Stop large capacity magazines. Many states limit the capacity to less than 10 rounds. Why does anyone need 17 or 40 rounds?



Now the first stumbling block is that our NRA friends will decry this as “the first step in taking all of our weapons, including steak knives and emasculating the US of A!”.

So, we would have that to deal with. Not that we already don’t.....



The bottom line here is that these mass shooting are facilitated by so many of us wanting “cool” militarized weapons that civilians truly have no business having. And the thought that having these toys is a right - or justifies the risk of carnage is irresponsible.
tailgater Offline
#215 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
The narrative was a ridiculous attempt to smear the dead kid.
The narrative was "He was carrying two of the 3 ingredients that those inner city black people combine to make "drank"!" (note... the 2 of the 3 ingredients were skittles and iced tea... really missing the important ingredient, cough syrup... and even then my understanding is "skittles" in the recipe is code for cough medicine in pills form. Esseentially, it's like claiming a person is carrying half the ingredients of a rum and coke, so they MUST be an alcohol abuser)



This is why I asked "which Trayvon?".

We can't change the narrative from back then.
I think the kid was murdered and Zimmerman should have done jail time.
It's just unfortunate that Obama already abused the "acted stupidly" defense, so there was no choice but to let him go...




victor809 Offline
#216 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Meh.

Let everyone have all the guns.

Every now and then someone will shoot up a soft spot... (school, theater, mall, post office, wherever)... do we really care that much about the occasional relatively random death?

I care more about systematic intentional deaths. Those are more simple to observe/assess... I can't bring myself to be too bothered by the occasional random mass murderer. I honestly don't think most people are bothered by it either. they just like to pretend they do... say "prayers to XX" and then pat themselves on the back for thinking they're good human beings. I've seen no real indication they care though.
paulkeck Offline
#217 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
Ok, here is my shot at what we should do with gun laws:

Reinstate the ban on selling assault style weapons. Semi auto rifles with large capacity magazines that support rapid fire. Lot to argue here about the details, but the goal is not to limit true hunting rifles (bolt action, 3 round shot guns, etc,) but stop in influx of the militarized ones that have no home in our society - out side of being “cool toys”.

Ban bump stocks that can make a rifle near automatic.

Stop large capacity magazines. Many states limit the capacity to less than 10 rounds. Why does anyone need 17 or 40 rounds?



Now the first stumbling block is that our NRA friends will decry this as “the first step in taking all of our weapons, including steak knives and emasculating the US of A!”.

So, we would have that to deal with. Not that we already don’t.....



The bottom line here is that these mass shooting are facilitated by so many of us wanting “cool” militarized weapons that civilian truly have no business having. And the thought that having these toys is a right - or justifies the risk of carnage is irresponsible.


Yep...has nothing to do with the mentally ill doped up youth of America...it's those damn black guns with those bump stocks
victor809 Offline
#218 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
This is why I asked "which Trayvon?".

We can't change the narrative from back then.
I think the kid was murdered and Zimmerman should have done jail time.
It's just unfortunate that Obama already abused the "acted stupidly" defense, so there was no choice but to let him go...





I must have misunderstood your intended statement then....
Brewha Offline
#219 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
victor809 wrote:
Meh.

Let everyone have all the guns.

Every now and then someone will shoot up a soft spot... (school, theater, mall, post office, wherever)... do we really care that much about the occasional relatively random death?

I care more about systematic intentional deaths. Those are more simple to observe/assess... I can't bring myself to be too bothered by the occasional random mass murderer. I honestly don't think most people are bothered by it either. they just like to pretend they do... say "prayers to XX" and then pat themselves on the back for thinking they're good human beings. I've seen no real indication they care though.

I see you point Victor. But look at if from the non-misanthrop point of view. Yes I know it is a strain.

Some us have kids, and would prefer them un-shot.
victor809 Offline
#220 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Brewha wrote:
I see you point Victor. But look at if from the non-misanthrop point of view. Yes I know it is a strain.

Some us have kids, and would prefer them un-shot.


.... really?




..... are you sure about that?



.... I mean... I hear they take up a ton of time.

And there have been economic studies that imply you don't really like them that much.... at least less than you like yourself... :)
Brewha Offline
#221 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
paulkeck wrote:
Yep...has nothing to do with the mentally ill doped up youth of America...it's those damn black guns with those bump stocks

If everyone were mentally balanced we would not have this problem. Also true, if our law makers were responsible.

Lacking that, we should push for responsible laws never the less....
Speyside Offline
#222 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Brewha, that still doesn't solve the underlying problem. Untreated mental illness. These are not actions of sane people. I am more interested in (not sure if this is the right phrase) criminally mentally ill people not being able to buy weapons. And all mentally ill people receiving treatment.
paulkeck Offline
#223 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
If everyone were mentally balanced we would not have this problem. Also true, if our law makers were responsible.

Lacking that, we should push for responsible laws never the less....

What law can be made that will be harsher than the death penalty?
Brewha Offline
#224 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
victor809 wrote:
.... really?




..... are you sure about that?



.... I mean... I hear they take up a ton of time.

And there have been economic studies that imply you don't really like them that much.... at least less than you like yourself... :)

Really - trust me.....
Sure I’m wrong plenty, but even a blind dog finds a bone once and a while.



Perhaps just take it on faith for the sake of argument. No need to change your would view or have a trial period with ankle biters.....
Speyside Offline
#225 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Sorry Brewha while I was typing you posted #221.
Brewha Offline
#226 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Speyside wrote:
Brewha, that still doesn't solve the underlying problem. Untreated mental illness. These are not actions of sane people. I am more interested in (not sure if this is the right phrase) criminally mentally ill people not being able to buy weapons. And all mentally ill people receiving treatment.

The problem on top and in our faces is allowing the mentally ill acess to these overkill (literally) weapons.

It is far more complex and difficult to get them all to stop eating crayons and rolling their poop into little balls.
Besides, we all know that government healthcare will destroy the nation. at least that’s what Fox says....
Speyside Offline
#227 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I don't disagree with that. But let's solve the problem. Limiting access would only solve a symptom of the problem.
Brewha Offline
#228 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
paulkeck wrote:
What law can be made that will be harsher than the death penalty?

Well, I think the death penalty for selling bump stocks is just a bit harsh.....
Let’s jsut call it a felony.
paulkeck Offline
#229 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
Well, I think the death penalty for selling bump stocks is just a bit harsh.....
Let’s jsut call it a felony.

No gun law is gonna Trump murder charges. And making drugs illegal sure did clean up the Nation of drugs.
HuckFinn Offline
#230 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
RMAN4443 wrote:
Wouldn't a unifyer have said "Trayvon could have been any one of our children?"????

Obama's own words:
You know, when Trayvon Martin was first shot I said that this could have been my son. Another way of saying that is: Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago," he said.

"And when you think about why, in the African American community at least, there's a lot of pain around what happened here, I think it's important to recognize that the African American community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that doesn't go away."
"There are very few African American men in this country who haven't had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store. That includes me," he said.

"There are very few African American men who haven't had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happened to me – at least before I was a senator.

"There are very few African Americans who haven't had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had a chance to get off. That happens often."

And I don't want to exaggerate this, but those sets of experiences inform how the African American community interprets what happened one night in Florida. And it's inescapable for people to bring those experiences to bear."
Speyside Offline
#231 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Gee Huck, that right there shows he was a great divider. Only speaking about the black experience. I mean even though that's all true what about the white experience. Those KKK people can tell you horror stories about 150 thread count sheets. Going farther back many were traumatised by, well they built large crosses to make up for it. I could go on and on.
paulkeck Offline
#232 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Speyside wrote:
Gee Huck, that right there shows he was a great divider. Only speaking about the black experience. I mean even though that's all true what about the white experience. Those KKK people can tell you horror stories about 150 thread count sheets. Going farther back many were traumatised by, well they built large crosses to make up for it. I could go on and on.

Yep!! Frickin white people never had it hard a day in their lifes....
HuckFinn Offline
#233 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Speyside wrote:
Gee Huck, that right there shows he was a great divider. Only speaking about the black experience. I mean even though that's all true what about the white experience. Those KKK people can tell you horror stories about 150 thread count sheets. Going farther back many were traumatised by, well they built large crosses to make up for it. I could go on and on.

I think you want to say...splinters. I appreciate the discretion and understand your reluctance
Brewha Offline
#234 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Speyside wrote:
I don't disagree with that. But let's solve the problem. Limiting access would only solve a symptom of the problem.

Well, I think that until the nation acknowledges that we should spend on mental health, we should at least takes steps to keep needlessly dangerous weapons out of their hands.
HuckFinn Offline
#235 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
paulkeck wrote:
Yep!! Frickin white people never had it hard a day in their lifes....

I dunno...I'm white and everyday seems hard.
But I was never kidnapped, shipped over in chains to a foreign country, separated from my family and enslaved. And then when after hundreds of years of cruel enslavement freed only to become a 2nd class citizen.
paulkeck Offline
#236 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
HuckFinn wrote:
I dunno...I'm white and everyday seems hard.
But I was never kidnapped, shipped over in chains to a foreign country, separated from my family and enslaved. And then when after hundreds of years of cruel enslavement freed only to become a 2nd class citizen.


I wasn't either, lucky us!! I mean I can't believe they still allow that to happen here in America. We should be ashamed
Brewha Offline
#237 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
paulkeck wrote:
No gun law is gonna Trump murder charges. And making drugs illegal sure did clean up the Nation of drugs.

So you would agree that we would work to keep drugs off the streets.

And needlessly dangerous weapons out of dealers inventory.

Yes?
HuckFinn Offline
#238 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
paulkeck wrote:
I wasn't either, lucky us!! I mean I can't believe they still allow that to happen here in America. We should be ashamed

Alright. You think that's a valid point. I don't.
Black people are still treated like 2nd class citizens. I, personally, am ashamed of what my race is capable of.
Or do you not see that...cause these conversations can get tedious really fast, right?
Brewha Offline
#239 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
HuckFinn wrote:
I dunno...I'm white and everyday seems hard.
But I was never kidnapped, shipped over in chains to a foreign country, separated from my family and enslaved. And then when after hundreds of years of cruel enslavement freed only to become a 2nd class citizen.

Me neither.

But I was born in New Jersey - so I have had it tougher than most.....
paulkeck Offline
#240 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
So you would agree that we would work to keep drugs off the streets.

And needlessly dangerous weapons out of dealers inventory.

Yes?

I agree that the laws to keep drugs off the streets do nothing. I also agree that making gun laws harder does nothing... criminals will commit crimes....plain and simple, treat the people not the tool, laws force the majority to suffer for the minority and does nothing to deter criminals like I said the death penalty doesn't so what makes you think a magazine capacity law will?
delta1 Offline
#241 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,794
HuckFinn wrote:
Obama's own words:
You know, when Trayvon Martin was first shot I said that this could have been my son. Another way of saying that is: Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago," he said.

"And when you think about why, in the African American community at least, there's a lot of pain around what happened here, I think it's important to recognize that the African American community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that doesn't go away."
"There are very few African American men in this country who haven't had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store. That includes me," he said.

"There are very few African American men who haven't had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happened to me – at least before I was a senator.

"There are very few African Americans who haven't had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had a chance to get off. That happens often."

And I don't want to exaggerate this, but those sets of experiences inform how the African American community interprets what happened one night in Florida. And it's inescapable for people to bring those experiences to bear."



yep...he was trying to explain a perspective that most in the status quo have not experienced...a perspective gained from a way of life fundamentally different than what most in white America experience...a result from generations of discrimination that have produced ingrained institutional bias and strong feelings of animosity, distrust, resentment and fear on both sides...

it was a message that many white Americans did not want to hear...but may have been historically important because the momentum of equality and justice gained from the passage of the Civil Rights Act seemed to have stalled, especially in poor minority neighborhoods...wounds that were opened by the difficult economic conditions produced by the Great Recession...


It's ironic that those who unfailingly and blindly backed the cops in deadly encounters with blacks then, on the premise that this is a country where law and order is a cornerstone...now seek to crush that foundation...
teedubbya Offline
#242 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I’m not sure the death penalty deters anyone determined to kill the self or commit suicide by cop. Florida has the death penalty and intends to use in on this white non Muslim terrorist.

What about letting the cdc and nih study gun violence and undue Trumps efforts to make it easier for folks with mental issues to get guns. Just a small start, and I’m not sure where to go from there.
victor809 Offline
#243 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
It's funny that what he was doing, trying to explain an experience from the point of view of one side, is the first step in trying to create unity.

Both sides need to understand the view of the other before you can have any unity. If you refuse to see things from the perspective of the other side, you will not be unified.

There's serious irony in people who refused to acknowledge what he was attempting to do there calling him a great divider.
Brewha Offline
#244 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
paulkeck wrote:
I agree that the laws to keep drugs off the streets do nothing. I also agree that making gun laws harder does nothing... criminals will commit crimes....plain and simple, treat the people not the tool, laws force the majority to suffer for the minority and does nothing to deter criminals like I said the death penalty doesn't so what makes you think a magazine capacity law will?

First, I was speaking of taking high capacity magazines off of the market. like heroine - not on the open, leagal, buy some for your kids market.

But - if you believe that law have no value....well....

Just to be clear, no one thinks laws ”stop crime”.
No one.

They deter crime and make it possible to prosecute.
And we are better off with them when without.
(That is my Capt. Obvious impression, what do you think?)
RMAN4443 Offline
#245 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
HuckFinn wrote:
I dunno...I'm white and everyday seems hard.
But I was never kidnapped, shipped over in chains to a foreign country, separated from my family and enslaved. And then when after hundreds of years of cruel enslavement freed only to become a 2nd class citizen.

I grew up near Boston/Roxbury mass, went to high school with black kids,played on sports teams with black kids, had many black friends, ate dinner at many of their houses with their parents, and I don't think any of them were kidnapped put in chains and cruelly enslaved for any length of time. ...they had the same gripes my parents had. ...

Paying the bills,putting food on the table,teaching their kids right from wrong....
I guess I just don't understand your arguement,Where did you meet all these mistreated ex slaves?
Phil222 Offline
#246 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
If you take guns out of the hands of people with mental health issues (put them in databases, etc.), then some people will stop seeking treatment for fear of losing their guns and privacy. Then we will have a whole lot of people with mental health problems with guns and no medication or help to speak of. A potentially worse problem for America.
paulkeck Offline
#247 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Well I never said laws are useless and go a head and name a law that deters crime from criminals? Laws deter crimes from citizens as you and most of us on here. So once again as I stated... Stricter gun laws do nothing to deter crime, it just opens up ways to make the average citizen lose their rights easier. Meth is illegal, I don't do meth....because I don't want to break the law...or be a meth head lol but there are plenty of meth heads in America.
teedubbya Offline
#248 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Phil perhaps. Assuming they are thinking logically. But I don’t think that was much of an issue in the latest rollback.
HuckFinn Offline
#249 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
RMAN4443 wrote:
I grew up near Boston/Roxbury mass, went to high school with black kids,played on sports teams with black kids, had many black friends, ate dinner at many of their houses with their parents, and I don't think any of them were kidnapped put in chains and cruelly enslaved for any length of time. ...they had the same gripes my parents had. ...

Paying the bills,putting food on the table,teaching their kids right from wrong....
I guess I just don't understand your arguement,Where did you meet all these mistreated ex slaves?

I'm sorry. I can't have this conversation with you. I respect your point of view and your perspective but honestly believe an hour or so of researching slavery and subsequent black history should change your pov.
Phil222 Offline
#250 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
I'm not familiar with the latest rollback. Just speaking in generalities. I think getting more people access to mental health treatment would be a better prevention then enacting legislation that could potentially have an opposite effect.
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