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National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934
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paulkeck Offline
#251 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:18 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Not to mention, what justifies mental illness and who is the one doing the judging? That's the issue us so called "gun nuts" have. It starts with if you talk to yourself you shouldn't have a gun...ban him. Then all of a sudden.....if you have ever had a dui or drinking charge... You're mentally dependant ban him. And I'm sure a lot of you will say oh that would never happen.
Brewha Offline
#252 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:23 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
paulkeck wrote:
Well I never said laws are useless and go a head and name a law that deters crime from criminals? Laws deter crimes from citizens as you and most of us on here. So once again as I stated... Stricter gun laws do nothing to deter crime, it just opens up ways to make the average citizen lose their rights easier. Meth is illegal, I don't do meth....because I don't want to break the law...or be a meth head lol but there are plenty of meth heads in America.

If stricter gun laws keep the weapons out of the hands of criminals they are denied the means of the crime.

Buying hand grenades is illegal, and has detured people from using them in a mass murder. If the kid in Florida could have bought them at Walmart, we would have used them. But he could not.

Wanna start selling grenades at Wally World? I mean, for your rights and all....
teedubbya Offline
#253 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:24 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Well when you let the fear of the extreme drive pragmatic policies there isn’t much to be done.
paulkeck Offline
#254 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:26 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Really? You don't think you can get grenades, full auto weapons or even a damn submarine illegally? Where there's a will.. There's a way
Phil222 Offline
#255 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:27 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
paulkeck wrote:
Not to mention, what justifies mental illness and who is the one doing the judging?


DSM-5 and most likely a licensed professional.
Brewha Offline
#256 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:27 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
In view of Florida, and many other incidents, it appears that too many dangerous thing are too available.
Things need to be dialed back a notch.

Screw your rights.
Those kids had rights too.
paulkeck Offline
#257 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:29 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
I mean the thousands of fellons a year that get arrested for possessing fire arms. I guess they bought them at Wal-Mart. Again do they sell heroin or meth or coke at Wal-Mart? I mean since they don't I guess no one gets it. But that's not the same because people couldn't get an AR illegally
Brewha Offline
#258 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:29 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
teedubbya wrote:
Well when you let the fear of the extreme drive pragmatic policies there isn’t much to be done.

No - I am afraid that crazy people have easy acess to too much. This is a mater of degree.
And being responsible.
victor809 Offline
#259 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:30 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Not to point out the obvious, but the argument that something can be obtained illegally, therefore there is no reason to make laws against it is a dumb argument.

There are better arguments to be made.
Brewha Offline
#260 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:32 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
paulkeck wrote:
I mean the thousands of fellons a year that get arrested for possessing fire arms. I guess they bought them at Wal-Mart. Again do they sell heroin or meth or coke at Wal-Mart? I mean since they don't I guess no one gets it. But that's not the same because people couldn't get an AR illegally

Come on Paul. Are you really saying that we don’t need laws because of criminals? Huh
paulkeck Offline
#261 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:32 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Screw your rights...not mine, move to Australia or somewhere you can give your rights up. They damn sure did have rights. They had rights to live just as I do and they were robbed of that right by a crazy piece of ****. The schools failed their rights, the FBI failed their rights. Lets ban those as well
Brewha Offline
#262 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:33 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
victor809 wrote:
Not to point out the obvious, but the argument that something can be obtained illegally, therefore there is no reason to make laws against it is a dumb argument.

There are better arguments to be made.

But it feels good, don’t it?
Brewha Offline
#263 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:34 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
paulkeck wrote:
Screw your rights...not mine, move to Australia or somewhere you can give your rights up. They damn sure did have rights. They had rights to live just as I do and they were robbed of that right by a crazy piece of ****. The schools failed their rights, the FBI failed their rights. Lets ban those as well

Than you live with the blood on your hands.

Me, I want to make this country a great place to live. For kids too...
paulkeck Offline
#264 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:35 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
You keep saying that I am saying no laws....I am saying WE HAVE LAWS!!! criminals don't listen to them now so what the he'll is making them harder going to do besides screw the people that actually follow them now
paulkeck Offline
#265 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:36 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
I don't have a drop of blood on my hands, my weapons have never harmed anyone.
Brewha Offline
#266 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:39 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
paulkeck wrote:
You keep saying that I am saying no laws....I am saying WE HAVE LAWS!!! criminals don't listen to them now so what the he'll is making them harder going to do besides screw the people that actually follow them now

What harder?

Give up a few militarized toys you don’t need. Just stick with a revolver and a shot gun.

Please....
paulkeck Offline
#267 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:40 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
I don't have one militarized fire arm I have an lr308 hunting rifle 2 ar15 pistols and some others not one is militarized or used for killing
HuckFinn Offline
#268 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:40 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
The ny transit authority has a slogan "if you see something, say something"
Kids have to police themselves too.
Political hopefuls are gonna have to think twice before accepting contributions from the NRA
People in entertainment have to rethink what they're willing to distribute
Video game companies, school psychologists, parents, everyone has to rethink their game.
S'gonna take a village....oops
Brewha Offline
#269 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:43 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
paulkeck wrote:
I don't have one militarized fire arm I have an lr308 hunting rifle 2 ar15 pistols and some others not one is militarized or used for killing

Then you are good with people not being able to buy assault rifles, 60 round clips, etc.?

I mean who really “needs” them?
Except the bad guys....
paulkeck Offline
#270 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:49 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Again I own 2 ar15s and not one is an assault rifle I have several 20 and 30 round mags and not once have I thought man let's go be a scum bag piece of sh1t.
paulkeck Offline
#271 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:50 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Who needs them?? Good guys when the bad guys have them.
Brewha Offline
#272 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:52 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Just to be clear, I see no reason to take away my wife’s S&W 38 J-frame.

Or my all stainless steel Dan Wesson government with the target sights, match grade barrel, skeletonize hammer, undercut trigger guard, and cocobolo grips......
paulkeck Offline
#273 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:55 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
I agree and I are no reason to take my Glocks or Ars they can all be used by stupid people as well as good people
Brewha Offline
#274 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 7:58 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
paulkeck wrote:
Again I own 2 ar15s and not one is an assault rifle I have several 20 and 30 round mags and not once have I thought man let's go be a scum bag piece of sh1t.

Colt AR-15’s?

Nah - even with at 30 round magazines, no one would call that an assault rifle.

well maybe one:
http://kdvr.com/2018/02/19/man-destroys-ar-15-on-camera-to-support-gun-control-in-wake-of-florida-shooting/
Brewha Offline
#275 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 8:00 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Paul, what do you use those rifles for?

Sneks and such?
paulkeck Offline
#276 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 8:14 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
Colt AR-15’s?

Nah - even with at 30 round magazines, no one would call that an assault rifle.

well maybe one:
http://kdvr.com/2018/02/19/man-destroys-ar-15-on-camera-to-support-gun-control-in-wake-of-florida-shooting/

Not colt, Dpms
paulkeck Offline
#277 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 8:15 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
paulkeck wrote:
Not volts, Dpms

Hog hunting, coyote hunting, shooting at the range, or out at the lease.... plinking pretty much the normal thing you do with a rifle
paulkeck Offline
#278 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 8:17 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
Just to be clear, I see no reason to take away my wife’s S&W 38 J-frame.

Or my all stainless steel Dan Wesson government with the target sights, match grade barrel, skeletonize hammer, undercut trigger guard, and cocobolo grips......



What exactly do you do with that hog leg?
Phil222 Offline
#279 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 8:23 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
Brewha wrote:
Ok, here is my shot at what we should do with gun laws:

Reinstate the ban on selling assault style weapons. Semi auto rifles with large capacity magazines that support rapid fire. Lot to argue here about the details, but the goal is not to limit true hunting rifles (bolt action, 3 round shot guns, etc,) but stop in influx of the militarized ones that have no home in our society - out side of being “cool toys”.

Ban bump stocks that can make a rifle near automatic.

Stop large capacity magazines. Many states limit the capacity to less than 10 rounds. Why does anyone need 17 or 40 rounds?



Now the first stumbling block is that our NRA friends will decry this as “the first step in taking all of our weapons, including steak knives and emasculating the US of A!”.

So, we would have that to deal with. Not that we already don’t.....



The bottom line here is that these mass shooting are facilitated by so many of us wanting “cool” militarized weapons that civilians truly have no business having. And the thought that having these toys is a right - or justifies the risk of carnage is irresponsible.


What will stop a shooter from just carrying multiple 9 round pistols?
Brewha Offline
#280 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 8:24 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
I have a deep seated hatred of paper.

Ever get a paper cut? Well, I get even......
paulkeck Offline
#281 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 8:26 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Me too, I just don't change mags as much
Brewha Offline
#282 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 8:29 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Phil222 wrote:
What will stop a shooter from just carrying multiple 9 round pistols?

Less.
It is a question of degree and efficiency.

If the Vegas shooter only had bolt action deer rifles and pistols many more would be alive today.
Same for the Florida kid.

Again, I am not saying disarm.
I am saying that 40-60 round clips and bumps stocks have no place in society.

A fine point I admit.
Phil222 Offline
#283 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 8:32 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
I'm afraid that these shooters will just adapt their tactics to those types of regulations. Dual-Glocks with extra clips could make one hell of a mess.
Brewha Offline
#284 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 8:32 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
And more sand in the Vaseline, we should close the private sale loop hole.
Back ground checks for all sales.
Brewha Offline
#285 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 8:35 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Phil222 wrote:
I'm afraid that these shooters will just adapt their tactics to those types of regulations. Dual glocks with extra clips could make one hell of a mess.

Yes, but not like spraying 60 rounds between changes.
And not at long range.


I would posit the rational of citizens not being able to buy or own fully automatic weapons.
There is just no good reason to have them.
But should we have a right to, no matter the danger?
paulkeck Offline
#286 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 8:36 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
Yes, but not like spraying 60 rounds between changes.
And not at long range.


I would posit the rational of citizens not being able to Buy or own fully automatic weapons.
There is just no good reason to have them.

There is no good reason for a law abiding citizen not to have one...if he wants one
Phil222 Offline
#287 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 8:43 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
Brewha wrote:
Yes, but not like spraying 60 rounds between changes.
And not at long range.


I would posit the rational of citizens not being able to buy or own fully automatic weapons.
There is just no good reason to have them.
But should we have a right to, no mater the danger?


How long do you think it takes to change out a mag? It would still be very easy for a shooter to get a big body count in the right situation.

I'm just asking the questions that need to be addressed before any particular measures like those are taken. Are those types of laws really gonna solve this issue? If not, we need to look at other possible solutions.
Brewha Offline
#288 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 8:43 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
paulkeck wrote:
There is no good reason for a law abiding citizen not to have one...if he wants one

Not true.

They are too dangerous for any potential benefit to a citizen.

Dynamite
RPG’s
Cannons
Tactical nukes

There are a great many things we have no right what so ever to own or buy without licensing and an explicit reason.

Allowing it would be irresponsible.
Brewha Offline
#289 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 8:47 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Phil222 wrote:
How long do you think it takes to change out a mag? It would still be very easy for a shooter to get a big body count in the right situation.

I'm just asking the questions that need to be addressed before any particular measures like those are taken. Are those types of laws really gonna solve this issue? If not, we need to look at other possible solutions.

Well, I know how long it takes me. And yes, a mag well helps.

I don’t know about you, but if I’m in a room with 30 people, I would rather the guy have 9 rounds between reloads rather than 60.
paulkeck Offline
#290 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 8:51 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
Well, I know how long it takes me. And yes, a mag well helps.

I don’t know about you, but if I’m in a room with 30 people, I would rather the guy have 9 rounds between reloads rather than 60.


See... there's where we differ....if I was in that room I would rather have my own concealed handgun, I could give a **** less how many rounds he has.
paulkeck Offline
#291 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 8:52 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
Not true.

They are too dangerous for any potential benefit to a citizen.

Dynamite
RPG’s
Cannons
Tactical nukes

There are a great many things we have no right what so ever to own or buy without licensing and an explicit reason.

Allowing it would be irresponsible.

They are too dangerous for law abiding citizens? How do you figure that?
Brewha Offline
#292 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 8:57 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
paulkeck wrote:
See... there's where we differ....if I was in that room I would rather have my own concealed handgun, I could give a **** less how many rounds he has.

No, I am not suggesting that we not have our CCL and a nice little Sig 938 (although I am not a cocked and locked type).

Keep your self defense pistol. Hell, maybe you live in Newark.....
paulkeck Offline
#293 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 8:58 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
No, I am not suggesting that we not have our CCL and a nice little Sig 938 (although I am not a cocked and locked type).

Keep your self defense pistol. Hell, maybe you live in Newark.....


I live in Texas and I'm a one in the chamber kind of guy
Brewha Offline
#294 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 9:01 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
paulkeck wrote:
They are too dangerous for law abiding citizens? How do you figure that?

Ever had a crazy neighbor?

Would you want him to pop that tree stum with a box-o-dynamite?
Wire his garden with claymores to keep the rabbits out?

Do you relise how powerfully stupid people are?
Phil222 Offline
#295 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 9:02 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
Brewha wrote:
Well, I know how long it takes me. And yes, a mag well helps.

I don’t know about you, but if I’m in a room with 30 people, I would rather the guy have 9 rounds between reloads rather than 60.


Remember, he has two pistols. That is 18 rounds. Maybe he has two more on his hip ready to go. I had a friend that used to carry four pistols on himself at all times. Do you get my point?

If I'm gonna vote to take away Paul's right to own his AR, then I want to be certain that it is gonna have a tremendous affect on gun violence in this country. I just don't currently feel that it will. Especially not in the inner-cities.
Brewha Offline
#296 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 9:11 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Phil222 wrote:
Remember, he has two pistols. That is 18 rounds. Maybe he has two more on his hip ready to go. I had a friend that used to carry four pistols on himself at all times. Do you get my point?

If I'm gonna vote to take away Paul's right to own his AR, then I want to be certain that it is gonna have a tremendous affect on gun violence in this country. I just don't currently feel that it will. Especially not in the inner-cities.

I get your point. I hope you get mine.

And I am suggesting a ban on sales.


Look, there is really no way to stop some one from building a bomb. But let’s not make it as easy as ordering online.




I would also ask why anyone needs such bad azz weapons for self defense.....but I know what I will be told.
paulkeck Offline
#297 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 9:11 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Its a debate that's gonna keep on going, it just shows how far this Nation is decided as well as the differences in States
Speyside Offline
#298 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 9:28 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Double post outrage! So what is it we decided? LOL.
paulkeck Offline
#299 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 9:29 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Speyside wrote:
Double post outrage! So what is it we decided? LOL.

That we are screwed
Phil222 Offline
#300 Posted: Mon, Feb 19 2018, 9:30 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
Brewha wrote:
I would also ask why anyone needs such bad azz weapons for self defense.....but I know what I will be told.


I would argue that they don't. You want to ban grenades even though we can still sell claymores. I just don't see the point. Not when it will have little to no impact on the vast majority of homicides commited with guns in this country.

I think we both agree on the end goal, just have different ideas on how to get there.
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