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Corona Virus
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Pudding Mittens Offline
#451 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 4:44 PM EST
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291
.
Pudding Mittens wrote:

5. FDA just approved a new COVID-19 test. Details:

Compact, can be done in a doctor's office, no hospital needed.
Provides positive results in 5 minutes.
Provides negative results in 13 minutes.
Will facilitate much easier and widespread mass testing.
Intention is to test millions of people in April.
.

Abbott press release about this:

https://abbott.mediaroom.com/2020-03-27-Abbott-Launches-Molecular-Point-of-Care-Test-to-Detect-Novel-Coronavirus-in-as-Little-as-Five-Minutes

And a correction, turns out it's not "approved" rather it was given an "emergency use authorization".
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danmdevries Offline
#452 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 6:27 PM EST
Joined: 02-11-2014
Posts: 17,392
What do you expect to come from a test? Numbers?

It does absolutely nothing for us. My hospital has tested five. Treated as positive, and 10 days later yup.. positive. We have nearly 100 cases, but can tell the news we have five

It changes nothing, since there's no treatment. All we do is support failing body systems. Even if this was 100% unknown viral syndrome, we treat like this.

I'd much rather see new respirators being manufactured over useless tests. We have to reuse our respirators, which up until now was an absolute NO. Were being issued one. That's all we get until further notice. It's like being airdropped in a warzone in your underpants and handed a stick.
copuffer1 Offline
#453 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 6:38 PM EST
Joined: 09-15-2017
Posts: 11
I live in the Caribbean, and the virus has got the entire country on lockdown. It's completely effed up my supply chain, meaning no new deliveries for me. I got 27 ciggies left in my meagre stash and i'm down to smoking half a 'gar when the urge pounds my delicate snowflake butt.

I will say one thing, my nicotine tolerance which I'd proudly built up over the years has taken a mack truck sized hit from smoking infrequently now. so much so, half a hc cubana knocks me on my azz. Thanks corona for effing up my formerly sweet azz smoking life. Frying pan
frankj1 Offline
#454 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 6:46 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
copuffer1 wrote:
I live in the Caribbean, and the virus has got the entire country on lockdown. It's completely effed up my supply chain, meaning no new deliveries for me. I got 27 ciggies left in my meagre stash and i'm down to smoking half a 'gar when the urge pounds my delicate snowflake butt.

I will say one thing, my nicotine tolerance which I'd proudly built up over the years has taken a mack truck sized hit from smoking infrequently now. so much so, half a hc cubana knocks me on my azz. Thanks corona for effing up my formerly sweet azz smoking life. Frying pan

double up on the rum
Pudding Mittens Offline
#455 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 7:09 PM EST
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291
danmdevries wrote:
there's no treatment.

It increasingly looks very much like there is, hydroxycholoroquine and azithromycin (under a doctor's discretion and control, of course).

See my prior posts about the remarkable real-world results achieved with hospitalized COVID-19 patients, many of them in advanced stages, and an initial report indicating no incremental risk when using the two drugs together.

Yeah I know, no large-scale controlled definitive tests yet, but that doesn't mean you don't have a look at the evidence that DOES exist. And MDs have been doing exactly that lately, which is why off-label use of this pair of drugs for COVID-19 is being widely done now, all across the U.S. and much of the rest of the world, by many many doctors.

There is also "informed speculation", so to speak, that hydroxycholoroquine may work as a COVID-19 prophylactic when given to healthcare workers. Some doctors are using it for this purpose now. One from NYC who deals with lots and lots of COVID-19 patients daily was interviewed on cable news last night, and said if anyone should have COVID-19 by now it should be him, but he doesn't, which he suspects is because of his prophylactic use of hydroxycholoroquine. Yes, much more evidence and formal studies are needed on this.
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victor809 Offline
#456 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 7:15 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Uh... Pudding... You did see danms post where he said they were try that in his hospital and it wasn't saving anyone, right? Maybe not really smart to be telling him that it's an exciting new treatment.
Pudding Mittens Offline
#457 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 7:19 PM EST
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291
victor809 wrote:
Uh... Pudding... You did see danms post where he said they were try that in his hospital and it wasn't saving anyone, right? Maybe not really smart to be telling him that it's an exciting new treatment.

Well, everyone scolds me about anecdotal data not being worth much... when it shows this drug-pair working, that is. And yet when there's a single anecdotal report of it not working, suddenly that anecdotal is golden somehow? Okaaaaaay then.

All I can say is that it's reportedly working in a whole lot of other places!

We'll see what shakes out over time.
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victor809 Offline
#458 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 7:25 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I'm not saying his anecdotal evidence is better than yours. Just that telling someone to be excited about a treatment they're already trying (and watching people die on) is maybe a bad choice.
Pudding Mittens Offline
#459 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 7:28 PM EST
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291
victor809 wrote:
I'm not saying his anecdotal evidence is better than yours. Just that telling someone to be excited about a treatment they're already trying (and watching people die on) is maybe a bad choice.

1. I never said to "get excited" about it.

2. I quoted his statement for comment purposes, but as always, I was speaking to all readers of this forum. It wasn't a private message to him.

If it's working some places and not in others, that's obviously odd, and I wonder what the explanation is. I suspect we won't know for quite some time. But to say "there's no treatment" may not be correct. Or, it might be correct! We just don't know yet and can't definitively say, that was my point.
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victor809 Offline
#460 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 7:34 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
"remarkable real world results"... Practically had it's own exclamation point....

I know you're really excited about this possibility man... And I like bursting your bubble... I am a misanthrope... But I'm not actually trying to do that this time. I was literally just trying to remind you that you're telling a dude who has actually been using this treatment and himself said it's done nothing for the patients he's seen, to be hopeful about it coming up.
danmdevries Offline
#461 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 7:35 PM EST
Joined: 02-11-2014
Posts: 17,392
Pudding Mittens wrote:
Well, everyone scolds me about anecdotal data not being worth much... when it shows this drug-pair working, that is. And yet when there's a single anecdotal report of it not working, suddenly that anecdotal is golden somehow? Okaaaaaay then.

All I can say is that it's reportedly working in a whole lot of other places!

We'll see what shakes out over time.
.


I've not seen any promising results from this combo.

Tell ya what, you come do my job and take plaquenil/azith and I'll give you 2x my paycheck.

Remember, you're doing it with one mask per week even though a month ago reuse of a respirator was verboten.
delta1 Offline
#462 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 7:36 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,794
in other news: fo gawds sake, don't drink methanol...

more than 100 Iranians, desperate for cures, have died from ingesting methanol because someone on social media posted something about it being effective...many more severely ill...


I know, I know...they're Iranians... thin the herd ..... and all that... but c'mon people...
Pudding Mittens Offline
#463 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 7:38 PM EST
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291
victor809 wrote:
"remarkable real world results"... Practically had it's own exclamation point....

The reported results I referred to were indeed remarkable.

victor809 wrote:
you're telling a dude who has actually been using this treatment and himself said it's done nothing for the patients he's seen, to be hopeful about it coming up.

Again, no, I was not. And again, the entire and sole point was "this statement may not be universally true, we aren't sure yet".

danmdevries wrote:
I've not seen any promising results from this combo.

Tell ya what, you come do my job and take plaquenil/azith and I'll give you 2x my paycheck.

Remember, you're doing it with one mask per week even though a month ago reuse of a respirator was verboten.

I completely believe you and what you're seeing.

Your observed outcomes differ from that of others being reported from other facilities. Nobody knows why. It's a great and somewhat unnerving question. Why some places and not others?

I have all the respect in the world for what you're doing, requires balls of steel for sure.

I hope they get plentiful proper and full PPE for you guys ASAP!
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delta1 Offline
#464 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 7:41 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,794
danmdevries wrote:
I've not seen any promising results from this combo.

Tell ya what, you come do my job and take plaquenil/azith and I'll give you 2x my paycheck.

Remember, you're doing it with one mask per week even though a month ago reuse of a respirator was verboten.



danm...any efforts being made by AMA or American Nurses Association, or other professional medical workers organizations to publicly demand PPE in sufficient quantities and in a timely manner so that you can safely do your work?

It's criminal that a country as wealthy and powerful as ours is letting these shortages kill patients and healthcare workers, kinda like sending soldiers to battle without body armor and helmets and weapons
KingoftheCove Offline
#465 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 7:48 PM EST
Joined: 10-08-2011
Posts: 7,636
Pudding Mittens wrote:
It increasingly looks very much like there is, hydroxycholoroquine and azithromycin (under a doctor's discretion and control, of course).

.




Recently, President Trump has noted the use of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine as treatment options for patients with Covid-19 and subsequently ordered the FDA to grant approval on the grounds of compassionate use. This term is used to enable access to certain medications that would otherwise require a lengthy approval procedure, essentially allowing physicians to use an investigational drug under a protocol that undergoes review with an opportunity to collect additional data.

Hydroxychloroquine, which is sold by Concordia Pharmaceuticals under the brand name Plaquenil, and chloroquine are oral prescription drugs that have been used for many years to prevent and treat malaria and certain inflammatory conditions. Although these agents are well-established, they possess the potential to cause numerous side effects and should be used with caution in those who are diabetic, those with neurological disorders, and those with vision disorders. Recent data highlights how hydroxychloroquine retinopathy is more common than previously reported. Other side effects include cardiomyopathy and bone marrow suppression, but these are not commonly reported. Initial in vitro studies with hydroxychloroquine have demonstrated antiviral activity using severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infected Vero cells. Additionally, in an article published in The Lancet on 19 March, the efficacy and safety of hydroxychloroquine were investigated for the treatment of pneumonia caused by the coronavirus in a pilot study of 30 patients. The initial outcome was deemed positive; however, the results showed that it had a comparable assessment of conventional treatment alone. The study prospectively observed a population of 30 patients with mild Covid-19, where hydroxychloroquine was administered at a dose of 400mg per day for five days (HCQ) and randomised against a control group. While 13 patients (86.7%) in the HCQ group cleared the virus on Day 7, 14 patients (93.3%) in the control group managed the same with conventional treatment alone. Furthermore, the median duration of hospitalisation to virus nucleic acid negative conversion was similar in both groups.

Other studies have suggested that a combination of hydroxychloroquine with azithromycin may beneficial to prevent severe respiratory tract disease in those diagnosed with Covid-19. However, further data are required, as these studies were small and there is not enough evidence to convincingly implement guidance on this. Furthermore, azithromycin is associated with prolonged cardiac repolarisation and QT interval, imparting a risk of developing cardiac arrhythmias. Therefore, extra caution is required when considering this combination.

Currently, there are not enough data to support hydroxychloroquine use for Covid-19 treatment at the level of expectations set by President Trump. As such, larger and more robust randomised clinical trials are needed to inform clinical guidance on the use, dosing, or duration of hydroxychloroquine for prophylaxis or the treatment of SARS-CoV-2 infection.

https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/comment/hydroxychloroquine-covid-19-data-required/

On the other hand, if things are in desperation mode?
Fuq, I don’t know.
I just read a depressing piece about how our “experts” fumbled the ball in January, and well into Feb.
Brick wall
Pudding Mittens Offline
#466 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 7:56 PM EST
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291
KingoftheCove wrote:
On the other hand, if things are in desperation mode?
Fuq, I don’t know.

This is when it's really tough to be an M.D., early judgement calls like this with limited and/or contradictory data.
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victor809 Offline
#467 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 8:02 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
You go be you puddin'... No skin off my nose.
danmdevries Offline
#468 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 8:05 PM EST
Joined: 02-11-2014
Posts: 17,392
delta1 wrote:
danm...any efforts being made by AMA or American Nurses Association, or other professional medical workers organizations to publicly demand PPE in sufficient quantities and in a timely manner so that you can safely do your work?

It's criminal that a country as wealthy and powerful as ours is letting these shortages kill patients and healthcare workers, kinda like sending soldiers to battle without body armor and helmets and weapons


We're not union.

But even the union hospitals are failing to protect their workers. UIC and UOC in Chicago are out of PPE as well. They're offering $5k/week to come work there. But they don't have PPE.

There's nothing we can do but hope and pray. Which has about a 10% healthcare worker mortality rate looking at the data from Europe. And even that is probably doctored, since there's claims that those that got infected didn't get it at work...

Like I said before. I've written my will, I've wrote down account logins for my wife. I hope she and the boy escape unscathed. I do not expect to.

If we had the PPE, I'd be picking up extra shifts to help. But as it is, I'm only working what I'm obligated to work. Not my typical MO. I normally put in at least 12 hours OT a week during the grey months cause there's nothing else to do. Shut in at home, I'm itching to do something but I'm not walking into a battlefield in the nude until I'm forced to.

Like I said before, I am hoping that we can repurpose manufacturing efforts to protect us, WWII style, with PPE and ventilators and other equipment/supplies we need. This is not much different than going to war. This affects everyone. Nobody is getting out unscathed. I just want to live through it, but I don't know that I will.
KingoftheCove Offline
#469 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 8:09 PM EST
Joined: 10-08-2011
Posts: 7,636
This ^^ Is so fuqed up!
KingoftheCove Offline
#470 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 8:17 PM EST
Joined: 10-08-2011
Posts: 7,636
I’m trying to figure out how an old, retired consultant like me could see this coming, while our government “healthcare experts” could not?
Or, chose not to?
Or were told not to?

Doesn’t matter. Our healthcare workers are getting fuqed. Middle and lower income senior citizens are gonna get fuqed.
Many Americans will suffer in one way or another, for a longer time period, paying for the bailout.
The rich will end up richer................same old chit.
delta1 Offline
#471 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 9:01 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,794
it's heart breaking to watch interviews of healthcare workers, doctors and nurses, saying they are afraid to go home to their families, afraid for their lives while treating their patients...should not happen in the richest nation in the world...criminal that it does

hope someone shows a few of those interviews to Dear Leader...

I'm not religious, but I can't think of a better expression at the moment:


GOD BLESS DANM and all HIS COLLEAGUES IN THE MEDICAL PROFESSION, OUR DOCTORS and NURSES
victor809 Offline
#472 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 9:12 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Let's not forget the janitorial staff who have to work in these conditions, handle just about everything... And for probably very little pay.
frankj1 Offline
#473 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 9:31 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
and now we should all understand the value of immigrant labor to all Americans
teedubbya Offline
#474 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 9:45 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
King some may have missed it some didn’t. The embargo of outward facing information from this admin is like nothing seen before.

And if the top says it’s just the flu it doesn’t matter what others think or would want to say.

The gag is real.
MACS Offline
#475 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 10:35 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,791
frankj1 wrote:
and now we should all understand the value of immigrant labor to all Americans


And the absolute zero value, outside of entertainment, that athletes and hollywood adds.

No sports, no hollywood... no problem. See what happens if truckers, farmers and such stop working.
teedubbya Offline
#476 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 10:46 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Amen on that one.
victor809 Offline
#477 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 10:58 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Can't disagree with that.
MACS Offline
#478 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 11:04 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,791
frankj1 wrote:
and now we should all understand the value of immigrant labor to all Americans


And allow me to add... my wife is immigrant labor and works in the service industry (hotel on the base).

She also immigrated LEGALLY and became a citizen.

Can't understand how people are okay with illegal immigration.
8trackdisco Offline
#479 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 11:10 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,081
MACS wrote:
And allow me to add... my wife is immigrant labor and works in the service industry (hotel on the base).

She also immigrated LEGALLY and became a citizen.

Can't understand how people are okay with illegal immigration.


................. and another Amen.

The corona virus should be excused for stealthy crossing our borders. It was just looking for a better life.
KingoftheCove Offline
#480 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 11:55 PM EST
Joined: 10-08-2011
Posts: 7,636
teedubbya wrote:
King some may have missed it some didn’t. The embargo of outward facing information from this admin is like nothing seen before.

And if the top says it’s just the flu it doesn’t matter what others think or would want to say.

The gag is real.


By "healthcare experts" I was referring to the people at the top of the various government agencies who didn't have the nuts to speak out forcefully.
I know for a fact there were many people in the private sector (epidemiologists, researchers, etc.) who were alarmed very early on, and at least a few mid and lower level government types, who probably simply don't carry enough weight to have an impact.
That doesn't excuse their weakazz bosses
The message was not delivered with the proper urgency by the people at the top........imho.
I'd like to know WHY!

Fear of losing a job, probably a high paying job? Maybe they tried and were told to fuq off? Who knows.

The Chinese government did a fine job spinning their BS, which contributed greatly to this mess, but that's going to eventually unravel on them.
teedubbya Offline
#481 Posted: Sat, Mar 28 2020, 11:58 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
KingoftheCove wrote:
By "healthcare experts" I was referring to the people at the top of the various government agencies who didn't have the nuts to speak out forcefully.
I know for a fact there were many people in the private sector (epidemiologists, researchers, etc.) who were alarmed very early on, and at least a few mid and lower level government types, who probably simply don't carry enough weight to have an impact.
That doesn't excuse their weakazz bosses
The message was not delivered with the proper urgency by the people at the top........imho.
I'd like to know WHY!

Fear of losing a job, probably a high paying job? Maybe they tried and were told to fuq off? Who knows.

The Chinese government did a fine job spinning their BS, which contributed greatly to this mess, but that's going to eventually unravel on them.


And that is one of the problems I have with this administration. Their science phobia got in the way. And trust me their gag orders and information embargo is something to behold. This time it contributed to a disaster.
8trackdisco Offline
#482 Posted: Sun, Mar 29 2020, 12:06 AM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,081
teedubbya wrote:
And that is one of the problems I have with this administration. Their science phobia got in the way. And trust me their gag orders and information embargo is something to behold. This time it contributed to a disaster.


No different in corporate America. NDAs cover up much more chit than people will ever realize.

Careers get sick and die because of them.
Pudding Mittens Offline
#483 Posted: Sun, Mar 29 2020, 12:27 AM EST
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291
.
FYI, there's a channel on YouTube called "MedCram" where an M.D. explains various things, and their claim to fame is that they present the details clearly in the videos so they're easier to understand and they use memorable illustrations to help people recall the stuff later.

They have a long-running series of daily (Monday through Friday anyway) updates on the latest coronavirus developments. They're numbered. I think Friday's was 45, if I remember right. I've watched them since they were in the 30s.

They're good and worth watching each day. You'll hear stuff you won't hear elsewhere, you'll get more detail on certain things than you would elsewhere, and they do indeed explain clearly and with nice illustrations to help you retain the material.

Have a look. "MedCram" channel then look for the numbered coronavirus update videos.
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teedubbya Offline
#484 Posted: Sun, Mar 29 2020, 12:28 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
8 I never intended to work for the government. I was recruited and my headhunter told me to stay no more than 2 years or I would be branded.

One of the refreshing things I found was transparency. I kept very few secrets like I had to in the private for profit or not for profit world. Not loose lips sink ships but straight forward truth telling with no proprietary crap to protect. Foia ruled the day and if it was foiable we pretty much just released things.

It was one of the upsides and refreshing.

That has changed in recent years. It’s unsettling. And I do believe it’s hurt us.
8trackdisco Offline
#485 Posted: Sun, Mar 29 2020, 9:49 AM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,081
teedubbya wrote:
8 I never intended to work for the government. I was recruited and my headhunter told me to stay no more than 2 years or I would be branded.

One of the refreshing things I found was transparency. I kept very few secrets like I had to in the private for profit or not for profit world. Not loose lips sink ships but straight forward truth telling with no proprietary crap to protect. Foia ruled the day and if it was foiable we pretty much just released things.

It was one of the upsides and refreshing.

That has changed in recent years. It’s unsettling. And I do believe it’s hurt us.


What is foia?
teedubbya Offline
#486 Posted: Sun, Mar 29 2020, 9:51 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Freedom of information act
KingoftheCove Offline
#487 Posted: Sun, Mar 29 2020, 9:52 AM EST
Joined: 10-08-2011
Posts: 7,636
Freedom of info act
teedubbya Offline
#488 Posted: Sun, Mar 29 2020, 9:52 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Which gets ignored or abused now days
KingoftheCove Offline
#489 Posted: Sun, Mar 29 2020, 9:54 AM EST
Joined: 10-08-2011
Posts: 7,636
Probably should be renamed now to
FOSIA

Freedom of SOME info act....
teedubbya Offline
#490 Posted: Sun, Mar 29 2020, 10:02 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
It’s the government. Unless it’s national security, personal private, procurement, or private proprietary information not much should be secret..... until lately when we don’t like it, we don’t believe in it, and it doesn’t make us look good have been added. Not legally but in practice.
teedubbya Offline
#491 Posted: Sun, Mar 29 2020, 10:07 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
As for doing the right thing... that would be deep stateish which doesn’t exist. I had a regional administrator once tell the entire staff during an admin change that we are whores.... we do what whomever is in power tells us period. There are whistleblower “protections” but we all see how those have been viewed as of late.

If you want a closed down secretive government we are well on our way regardless of political affiliation. Sometimes in the immediate trivial political fights the big picture gets missed.
USNGunner Offline
#492 Posted: Sun, Mar 29 2020, 10:15 AM EST
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
Cuomo. While I'm not a fan, this is a good perspective article.

https://www.aier.org/article/we-were-wrong-so-sorry-that-we-ruined-your-life/
USNGunner Offline
#493 Posted: Sun, Mar 29 2020, 10:15 AM EST
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
And for a true perspective on mortality.

https://ourworldindata.org/causes-of-death?fbclid=IwAR1HW8zFBVTzwYk85Vi7KhVX6yW0WDZfngvCbJq_KqNwTEcwHWWsfG2uKyQ
teedubbya Offline
#494 Posted: Sun, Mar 29 2020, 10:42 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Sometimes dead is better
delta1 Offline
#495 Posted: Sun, Mar 29 2020, 11:49 AM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,794
I have a DNR...if I'm close, in pain and it's inevitable...give me the shot...

in the meantime...I'm social distancing until the virus crisis abates

even then, may avoid crowded places...definitely not going on anymore cruises...
USNGunner Offline
#496 Posted: Sun, Mar 29 2020, 12:06 PM EST
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
Well, I had to go for a walk this morning. I took my sidewalk chalk and marked the places the concrete was warmer. Very interesting. I can't figure out all the yelling and screaming though.

https://imgur.com/gallery/OD1CkLY
Speyside Offline
#497 Posted: Sun, Mar 29 2020, 12:07 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Al, this is a wake up call for the world. The world wasn't prepared. The world has acted to slowly. The world needs to learn from this and plan a world wide step by step procedure for a pandemic. Fortunatly the morbidity rate is low, about 1/2 %, possibly lower. What if a pandemic occurs with a 30% morbidity rate?
USNGunner Offline
#498 Posted: Sun, Mar 29 2020, 12:16 PM EST
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
Speyside wrote:
Al, this is a wake up call for the world. The world wasn't prepared. The world has acted to slowly. The world needs to learn from this and plan a world wide step by step procedure for a pandemic. Fortunatly the morbidity rate is low, about 1/2 %, possibly lower. What if a pandemic occurs with a 30% morbidity rate?


Not true. I was. I am. For me and mine. There are a bunch of us actually.

Not everyone is laying around watching tiger king and lolly gagging. Some of us are keeping a weather eye out on the world. I've been prepping since the first outbreaks in November, and got seriously motivated when it hit Hong Kong. I knew right then we were toast. Too much traffic in and out at the Chinese New Year.

Folks give us ****, but when things go south, we're the ones stepping up and pulling the rest out.

Doesn't mean I can't still get it, but I'm minimizing our risk factors the the best that I can manage them.
delta1 Offline
#499 Posted: Sun, Mar 29 2020, 12:19 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,794
Speyside wrote:
Al, this is a wake up call for the world. The world wasn't prepared. The world has acted to slowly. The world needs to learn from this and plan a world wide step by step procedure for a pandemic. Fortunatly the morbidity rate is low, about 1/2 %, possibly lower. What if a pandemic occurs with a 30% morbidity rate?




scary thought...pretty sure people will return to "normal" after a few years, and engage in behavior that contributes to the spread of diseases...the globalization that started 5-6 centuries ago is complete...the global economy is here and there's no way to reverse that process...too much money driving globalization and that will arrest the populist nationalism trend...

but we can learn that at the first sign of an outbreak, stop what we're doing and evaluate how the contagion spreads and take steps to CONTAIN...


USNGunner wrote:
Not true. I was. I am. For me and mine. There are a bunch of us actually.

Not everyone is laying around watching tiger king and lolly gagging. Some of us are keeping a weather eye out on the world. I've been prepping since the first outbreaks in November, and got seriously motivated when it hit Hong Kong. I knew right then we were toast. Too much traffic in and out at the Chinese New Year.

Folks give us ****, but when things go south, we're the ones stepping up and pulling the rest out.

Doesn't mean I can't still get it, but I'm minimizing our risk factors the the best that I can manage them.



I think spey was talking about mankind, in general...there are pockets of people like you, who are prepared, and there were plenty of public health experts and the like, who warned everybody...but we, as a species, seem oblivious to real danger if we're not confronted by it everyday...we're hopeful for the best, and that may be a reason for our survival, too...
Speyside Offline
#500 Posted: Sun, Mar 29 2020, 12:24 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Gunner I get that, on an individual level, many of us are prepared as best we can. I am talking on a governmental, national level.
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